Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case

< Wikipedia:Arbitration | Requests

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Twobells (talk | contribs) at 15:30, 25 August 2015 (→Statement by Alanscottwalker). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings
Request name Motions Initiated Votes
Malik Shabazz Motions 25 August 2015 {{{votes}}}
[edit]
Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Palestine-Israel articles 5 (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 21 Dec 2024 11 Jan 2025
[edit]
Recently closed cases (Past cases)

No cases have recently been closed (view all closed cases).

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

Motion name Date posted
Arbitrator workflow motions 1 December 2024

Malik Shabazz

Opening the case - please don't make further changes to statements. L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 14:53, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Initiated by Georgewilliamherbert (talk) at 01:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC) Initiated by ceradon (talk • edits) at 01:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

A case of possible administrator abuse; DR unnecessary.

(for the record - Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC))[reply]

  • Malik warned [6]
  • Malik blocked and reblocked [7] (Chillum, Mike V, and KTC)

Statement by Ceradon

I believe we may have a case of abuse of administrator tools. The earliest example is likely here: [8], where Malik Shabazz revdels one of his own disparaging comments. Then, here: [9], where Shabazz says "suck my dick, ass hole" while giving Brad Dyer an ANI notice. Then here, [10], where Shabazz says, "No, you can suck it, sonny boy. What'll you call me next, nigger?". Now, RevDel criterion 3 states that "grossly inappropriate threats or attacks" may be revdelled. However, Shabazz, despite (or in spite of) his block, unrevdels that particular diff with the summary: "Restoring the truth -- you people can ignore this is [sic] you want, I won't". On his talk page, he says, in reference to Chillum, "You can suck my dick, too, asshole" [11]. And here [12], Shabazz states: "Now when the fuck is somebody going to address the fact that the Jewboy is harassing me? Or is only okay to hound niggers off Wikipedia?" Our policy on administrator conduct states: "Administrators are expected to lead by example and to behave in a respectful, civil manner in their interactions with others. Administrators are expected to follow Wikipedia policies and to perform their duties to the best of their abilities. Occasional mistakes are entirely compatible with adminship; administrators are not expected to be perfect. However, sustained or serious disruption of Wikipedia is incompatible with the status of administrator, and consistently or egregiously poor judgment may result in the removal of administrator status." Shabazz, on August 8, revdeled one of his own disparaging comments. It begs the question, what else has he hidden. How much else has flown under the radar. Shabazz has been an administrator for 8 years. I hate finger-wagging, but he should know better. I think there is enough material here for a case. Thank you, --ceradon (talk • edits) 01:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I should add, that Shabazz was blocked by Chillum for 2 days as a result of personal attacks., and reblocked by Mike V for misuse of talk page privileges, and then reblocked again by KTC for abuse of admin tools. --ceradon (talk • edits) 01:13, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • @L235: Done. --ceradon (talk • edits) 01:24, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Drmies: That is suggestive, and I have struck it. But I honestly hope this isn't a permanent desysop. Malik was provoked, it's easy to see, but it doesn't excuse his behavior, and his use of admin tools while blocked. Malik is angry. He should have a time to cool down. But if he is angry, it should not be at our peril. Leaving a person who is pissed off to infinity with the keys to the castle is the fucking height of stupidity. A temporary desysop was in order. But now that he no longer has his tools, I would probably want the Committee to suspend this case and allow the community to discuss it further. Maybe if there is consensus for a desysop, the desysop can stand, and if there isn't it can be removed. That's up to the Committee though. --ceradon (talk • edits) 02:41, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know if the Committee will find enough evidence to take a case, and I don't have any comment on that. But if the only think that can be used against Malik is what I have brought here today, I believe he should be allowed his bit back. Malik works in some very contentious and difficult areas, and endures a massive amount of hate for it (the RevDel log on his talk page is evidence enough). To leave him desysopped would be an absolute and unequivocal injustice incomparable to anything I've seen on Wikipedia. For all the shit he takes, he is allowed one misstep, I think. --ceradon (talk • edits) 03:49, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In regards to whether this should be full case: I think the conduct of Brad Dyer should be examined. And, since there is at least the possibility that this might result in a permanent desysop, I think a full case is necessary. --ceradon (talk • edits) 04:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Georgewilliamherbert

Malik and Brad Dyer entered into a content dispute which apparently turned nasty on both sides (documented here. Malik appears to have taken it far further including a number of personal attacks and eventually a block of him, him doing a page unprotect through the block [13](Chillium), and block extension (KTC). Having used admin functions in a personal dispute with other users through a block, it appears that a temporary desysop may be required, possibly by motion. Full case may or may not be required. Malik is not known to me to have had behavior issues prior to this incident, this is unlike him.

Additional note: Someone with some time to do so needs to closely examine the discussions leading up to the bad behavior for taunting or other behavior that might explain why a longstanding well liked admin suddenly reacted like this. I haven't yet and it needs to be done, and I don't have enough time to do so until later tonight. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:36, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Malik Shabazz

This is a copy of the e-mail message I sent ArbCom last night. "Under a cloud" my ass.

I initiated a complaint at AN/I because Brad Dyer, one of the dozens of pro-Israel single-purpose accounts that plague Wikipedia, was harassing me. You can read (what's left of) my complaint to see the details. What nobody seems to understand is that it should never be acceptable to refer to a Black man as "sonny boy". Brad Dyer has successfully hounded me off Wikipedia. You can all suck my balls, assholes, because all you did was delete my complaint.
So please take my tools. And go to hell.
Sincerely,
Malik Shabazz (sent 01:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC))

And Chillum, I was wrong to call the people at AN/I jackasses. I should have just called you a jackass. You didn't (and still don't) give a fuck that somebody was harassing me, but when I used the word Jewboy that got your attention. I'll reiterate: The Jewboy has chased the nigger off Wikipedia. Congratulations. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 17:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, ArbCom, for considering re-sysoping me, but I fell short of the standards I set for myself a long time ago and I resigned the bit.
This whole thing started because Brad Dyer was butthurt that I caught him plagiarizing from The New York Times. Somebody at Wikipedia must think COPYVIO is a big deal, because it's the first of several notices that appear above the edit box, but it sure isn't the admin corps. When Brad complained about my edit summary, I pointed out that his COPYVIO was the real issue, but nobody gave a damn. (Nobody cared about his personal attacks either, but that's par for the course.) That emboldened him to, as he acknowledged, hound me to an article he had never edited before and try to pull a tit-for-tat—except I hadn't added text to the article. My response could have been more diplomatic, but I stand by its substance.
I'd like to respond to two specific charges made against me on this page. Ceradon, who initiated this action, wrote "Shabazz, on August 8, revdeled one of his own disparaging comments. It begs the question, what else has he hidden. How much else has flown under the radar." I removed that edit summary at Brad Dyer's request only because nobody else would. My name is among the top users of RevDel, and I encourage you to review the material I've deleted. Hammersoft found four edit summaries in which I used four-letter words; I encourage you to look at the context in which those edits were made.
Once again, I'd like to thank the people who have had kind things to say about/to me. I'm sorry that my recent actions on Wikipedia have been inappropriate, and I'm especially sorry that they have undercut some of the nice things you have said about me and my work here. With that, I'm officially retired. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 15:38, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Chillum

The facts of this case are clear and not much is left but interpretation. WP:ADMIN says "Administrators are expected to lead by example and to behave in a respectful, civil manner in their interactions with others." These are not just pretty words for me, they are policy and they are a damn good idea.

In my opinion the abuse given out by Malik Shabazz is incompatible with being an administrator. We just cannot have admins calling people "Jewboy" and expect to be taken seriously.

Beyond the conduct unbecoming an admin we have at least two examples of abuse of admin tools. The revdel of his own comment which contained a personal attack in an apparent effort to hide it and the use of the revdel tool while blocked to restore his own comment which also contained a personal attack.

I feel the evidence in this case will be well documented, however if diffs are desired for anything I have claimed I will happily provide them. I think it is important that the community see that we do indeed have civility standards for at least our administrators. Chillum 01:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: Could you show me some diff that indicates that the revdel of the personal attack was done out of a sense of regret rather than a desire to conceal that behaviour? I admit I am not familiar with the context of the post and subsequent revdel. Chillum 02:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: I concede the possibility. It changes little in my opinion as that was the act I had the least objection too. Chillum 02:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

For those who wish for him to have his admin status restored based on this being an isolated incident I can certainly hold out hope for that myself. However so far all we have gotten from this user is more insults after the block, use of tools after talk page access was removed, and more insults and blaming others when talk page access was restored. I would like to see an admission that the users actions were not appropriate for an administrator and a clear plan on how this will be avoided in the future. As long as this user stands by their actions and blames others I would would call the idea of returning the tools a non-starter. Chillum 15:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Floquenbeam: I did not ask for grovelling, no need to mis-characterize what I said. I asked for a sign that he is now ready to return. He had his talk page access returned and he used it to call the folks at ANI jackasses and to blame others for his action. Surely a bad sign. It would be irresponsible to assume he is now ready to behave as expected without some level of commitment from him, and yes I do think that includes taking personal responsibility.

If this user cannot at the very least explain why this won't happen again then we cannot return the bit. I don't think the 8 years of good behaviour is proof it won't happen again because it did not stop it from happening the first time, I want to hear from his mouth that this is not going to repeat. Chillum 16:34, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Malik Shabazz: please do not tell me what I do and do not give a fuck about. I am heartbroken at how things have turned out. Chillum 17:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@StevenJ81: I have responded to you on my talk page, my section here is already getting very long. Chillum 18:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by KTC

Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:No personal attacks applies to everyone, and that includes if someone was responding to incivility that were directed at them. The comments by Brad Dyer was totally unacceptable, but undoubtedly so were Malik Shabazz's responses, who as an administrator was held to a higher standard of civility. Having said that, this would had ended at the original 48 hours block if Malik just walked away at that point, maybe even an unblock if he recognised the comments were inappropriate and agreed to stop. Instead, Malik continued with [14][15] on his talk page, which led to his having talk page access revoked, at which time he admined through his block in a manner connected to that block.

Admining through a block, especially in relation to that block is understood by every admin to be a desysop offence. Doing so to reinstate a personal attack that one were blocked for is simply conduct unbecoming.

While I do have sympathy with Malik given the incivility that had been directed at him, and his apparent (given the many testimonies here, ANI, and his talk page) many years of dedicated unblemished service to the project up to this point, he has obviously not recognised what went wrong from his side and is continuing with the same conduct still. -- KTC (talk) 17:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Brad_Dyer

Statement by MrX

Arbcom should swiftly decline this case. There is no evident pattern of long-term WP:ADMIN abuse or tool misuse. Malik Shabazz seems to have reacted to perceived harassment by another user. The community has not been afforded the opportunity to address the concerns in this complaint, as is the usual process defined at WP:ADMIN#Disputes or complaints. I would also add that it's silly to redact Malik's comments on ANI, yet bare them for the world to see here.- MrX 01:36, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As an ordinary member of this community, I'm stunned by the suggestion that Arbcom should discuss de-sysoping in private, and equally disheartened to see that some committee members have apparently already made up their minds to permanently de-sysop. The subject of this case has not even been given to opportunity to answer publicly, or to have his response examined by the community. Please help me understand under what policy Arbom derives the authority to circumvent the consensus established dispute resolution processes? - MrX 03:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Guerillero: Sure, I understand the need to temporarily de-sysop an account that may have been compromised, or when we fear that someone is going berserk and might break the internets. Setting that aside, my comments about due process and transparency stand.- MrX 03:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by non-party Zero0000

I'm an administrator whose editing interests have overlapped with Malik Shabazz's for a long time. Malik Shabazz has been an excellent contributor to the encyclopedia for many years, so it is sad to see him lose control as he did here. I hope that he will be given the opportunity to resume editing after a break. Just one comment on the evidence: a case for misuse of administrator tools needs to be made more carefully than it has been. Ceradon's list contains examples that are not misuse (the first diff: if an administrator improperly uses an offensive edit summary, then revdelling it should be his next edit), and examples not requiring administrator tools or done by someone else. Zerotalk 02:01, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Chillum: I don't know his motive, but you don't either and we shouldn't assume malice without evidence. On principle, something offensive should remain in the encyclopedia for as little time as possible. Of course he shouldn't have written the edit summary in the first place, but after he did so deleting it was proper, even required. Zerotalk 02:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm disturbed by the haste here. One hour and 14 minutes between filing and desysopping. Doesn't Malik even get an opportunity to speak in his own defence? Zerotalk 02:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Further to this, I understand better after Courcelle's comments. I hope that any permanent action will be taken with much less urgency, giving Malik adequate time to make a defence. Actually he has been one of the best editors I've interacted with and I believe that a careful review of his administrative activities will show that, with the possible exception of the past day or two, he has been a good administrator. I'll also mention one matter that probably escaped the attention of a few here: Malik is Jewish (userbox). Words that are shocking in most circumstances can be unexceptional invective within the tribe (think of the 'n' word as used between African-Americans). Whether that holds here, I don't know; just give him a chance. Zerotalk 03:58, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Sean.hoyland: @Kingsindian: On the subject of socks, there is a matter we shouldn't forget. Israeli newspapers have documented well-funded programs to teach people how to "promote the image of Israel on the internet". Some fraction of the new users who pop up with suspiciously good pre-existing Wikipedia skills might not be socks at all, but rather graduates of courses that taught them such skills. Zerotalk 02:33, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Avraham: Avi, sorry but I don't accept that. AGF applies to individuals, not to generic observation of an area of Wikipedia. Of course there are also pop-up new editors with a Palestinian perspective, but they are much fewer and almost always comparatively inept. In both cases, they get the benefit of AGF until they prove they don't deserve it. Anyway, do you really think that a Yahoo group is analogous to a government-funded program? Zerotalk 04:08, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Avraham: Avi, I frankly don't know what you are talking about. I did not accuse any person of anything, all I did was report what was in the news. My statement was aimed at those, most of whom you would consider to be on my side of the fence, who always cry "sock" when a new user with already-mature skills comes along. Often they turn out to be right, but I expect that sometimes they are not right. The discussion amongst arbitrators here is moving towards a general review of the I/P area. Perhaps I should wait until the review is officially underway, but I'm perfectly entitled to mention one factor that I suspect plays a significant part. The example I mentioned was the only one I can document; if you know of others feel free. Zerotalk 05:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Twobells: Your analysis of "sonny boy" is off-target. Yes, it is a phrase that can be used as term of endearment, to a child, a loved one, etc, but none of that applies to its use towards a stranger in a hostile situation. It is like "honey", which is common between lovers and from a parent to a child, but if you use it to a woman who is a stranger engaged in a dispute with you, she will be offended and call you a sexist pig. I know nothing of the practical use of "sonny boy" in a racial situation, but I don't see the slightest reason to doubt that Malik was offended by it. It would have been obvious to him, and it should be obvious to you, that the term was not intended to connote endearment. I advise you very strongly to not try it out on black strangers. Zerotalk 13:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

With respect, what I did was try to make editors aware of the facts pertaining to the term 'sonny boy', not anecdotal or regional experiences just the facts and that is 'sonny boy' is not as far I have researched, a racist term. Twobellst@lk 15:06, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Writ Keeper

I'd like to note two things. First, Malik's revdel of the 8th was done at Brad Dyer's request.[16][17] Not strictly correct, perhaps, but not something I'd hold against them, either.

Second, I feel that it's important to note that there was (imo) clear provocation from Brad here. Brad accused Malik of directly copying from a source, which is a serious accusation that wasn't true (it was actually added here). I would argue that the opening shots in this exchange came from Brad, with his condescending (to say the least) "sonny boy" here. Add that with the recent history between these two, and I'd say it's pretty clear that Brad was just looking for an excuse to pounce on Malik, and this was the next thing that came along.

Not that any of this excuses or even much mitigates what Malik said, or should interrupt the level 1 procedure here (which I personally think might be hasty but that's to one side); I'd just like it on the record that this didn't happen in a vacuum. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 02:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved EvergreenFir

The use of racial and ethnic slurs in this manner should be ground for immediate removal of tools. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 02:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

First a handful of cases of sexual harassment and now one of racial harassment. When are we going to fix WP:CIVIL and WP:HARASS and actually implement it? If you want stuff like this to stop then do something about it and stop opposing every effort to address it. The discussion on HARASS after LB's case is all but dead in the water. Suggestions to the community in a proposed decision won't do anything more than the nothing it's already done. We need strong enforcement and strong protections against this.

Do you have any concrete suggestions for an alternative way forward? We are prohibited from creating or imposing policies ourselves. Thryduulf (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A strong position statement from arbcom and action from WMF come to mind. But as long as people block any attempt to recognize the project's problem with identity-based harassment and insist that all harassment is equal, we're not going to get anywhere with consensus alone. We'll just keep losing editors and retaining those who benefit from the harassment. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 18:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Drmies

Wow, sometimes ArbCom works really quickly, and in this case unnecessarily so. You can't desysop like this for an insult, and the abuse of tools is singular: one revdel, in anger of course, just one, and no suggestion of a pattern. Not even a second abusive tool usage. I'm also puzzled by the suggestive rhetoric of "what else has he hidden", a phrase used by the filer--well, that's easy: you have admin glasses, Ceradon, and you can see what he has hidden, so there can be no question here. I find it sad that Malik did what he did, and I also find this whole circus wholly unnecessary. It's like Human Resources is looking over our shoulder constantly, and we are more than happy to rat each other out with these procedures--do you all not remember we're supposed to be colleagues here? (Someone commented that racial abuse is grounds for a desysop--surely that person knows how "sonny boy" must have been intended in this case.) Malik, I'm sorry.

  • After some more arbs have weighed in, I still am not convinced how we (you) extrapolated from one single clear error in judgment to the suspicion that this would be an ongoing pattern. One strike and you're out? Drmies (talk) 04:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hasteur: no, no cloud. No cloud. A hastily performed temporary emergency desysop which, as seems to be more and more clear, was unnecessary, that's not a cloud. Malik should never have been desysopped in the first place. At the risk of repeating myself, I still am not convinced how we extrapolated from one single clear error in judgment...etc. There was no pressing need to desysop him--and I have no idea why anyone thinks that was a good idea, even though it was supported by some people who generally have good sense. But all of this does only one thing, and that's to ensure that Malik won't be back. Here we are, figuring out whether he was just temporarily insane or is at risk of habitual tool abuse, patronizing the fuck out of him and making ourselves look like asses. All of those involved or being witness last night, including me, should have blocked that baiter. We're all cowards, inasmuch as we knew it in a timely manner, for not acting on that, and instead focusing on the aftermath, which could have been prevented. No, no cloud, except for ours. Drmies (talk) 23:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Courcelles, I support that "bad evening" proposal of yours--if only your actions, and of some others, hadn't made it necessary. And if you're going to write it, please make it sound as little patronizing as possible: it wasn't just Malik who was having a bad evening. ArbCom was at the wheel, with eyes wide shut. Drmies (talk) 23:04, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • GorillaWarfare, "not unprovoked" is a good candidate for understatement of the year. Drmies (talk) 15:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Softlavender

I recommend not accepting this case. Malik Shabazz is the most gentle, reasonable, forgiving, and harmless editor, never mind admin, I have ever seen or come across on Wikipedia. He also endures, without complaint, a nearly daily and non-stop onslaught of racial and ethnic slurs and abuse (check the revert and also revdel list on his talk and user pages), for being black and for being Jewish, and for editing circumspectly on controversial pages on Judaism, Muslim and Arab issues (which he also has an interest in because of his stated interest in Malcolm X), other ethnic conflicts, and pages on black figures or issues, etc. Thus far, to my knowledge, he has endured all of this without a single complaint or drop in civility, until apparently just now. Obviously a breach of civility and revdel parameters occurred, but this short-term lapse in judgment after enduring years of abuse is not worthy of an ArbCom case or a de-sysopping. Merely a warning should suffice. If this were a longterm pattern, that would be another thing entirely, but this is a singularly out-of-character short-term blow-up and misjudgment. Softlavender (talk) 03:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Hammersoft: Your cherry-picking of four edit summaries without any context at all, out of 8 years of exemplary and thankless service mainly in anti-vandalism in highly troublesome areas, and enduring near-daily racial, ethnic, and religious slurs, is not "sustained incivility". Calling out relentless trolls on their bullshit is not incivility in my opinion, especially after the trolls' repeated attempts to game the situation. The f-word is only used twice, once on Malik's own talk page when removing trolling. I've heard it said, and done, by admins (including at least one of the admins opining on this page), that one is allowed to say "Fuck off" in an edit summary on your own talk page when removing trollish posts. I'd invite you to examine the years of abuse that Malik has received on his talk page, but you wouldn't be able to view most of it because most of it has been revdelled by admins. Softlavender (talk) 00:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Panyd: I don't know that this will influence your position, but you do realize that Malik Shabazz is Jewish, right? By religion, by ethnicity, and by birth: both of his parents are Jewish (one is Ashkenazi, one is black -- statement here). Softlavender (talk) 09:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Malik Shabazz: Oh for heaven's sake, you haven't even broken the standards that you linked to, in my opinion: User:Malik Shabazz/Recall. If you are reading some sort of inviolable Olympian ideal into the word "appropriate", then you've set yourself above mere mortals and expected yourself to be a god or a superhuman or a saint or an angel. I think most everybody here who knows the details of your eight years of difficult, much-assailed, and unstinting service would call your conduct "understandable". And extremely short-lived (not an actionable pattern). No one in existence has never done something "inappropriate". By God, you've forced me to drag out an impromptu sermon I wrote when another admin "retired". Please read: starting at sentence three. And please give yourself a ******* break: You are not made of stone, and you are not superhuman, a saint, or a robot, as much as you might like to be any one of those. Come back and resume your service; to deprive us of it over some unreasonable expectation of perfection is ... unreasonable. Softlavender (talk) 04:14, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Ivanvector

I believe I'm uninvolved although I did comment at ANI that I endorsed (as a non-administrator) Chillum's initial block of Malik. Given that Malik was abusing the tools to edit through a block and restore revdeleted personal attacks, the level I desysop was absolutely warranted, however I encourage the Committee to decline this case at this time. It seems obvious that Brad Dyer's pointy behaviour and his own use of thinly-veiled racial epithets (per Drmies) were the opening salvo in this exchange, which somehow pushed one of our most level-headed admins to completely and rapidly self destruct. Of course that doesn't excuse Malik's behaviour, which would be appalling from any user but especially from an admin, but with the temporary desysop and both users on an enforced holiday, these issues are for the moment resolved. I agree with other users who have said here and at WP:ANI that if Malik's regrettable but isolated misstep resulted in permanently losing admin rights, that would be an overreaction and a net loss to the project. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 03:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the motion: as a matter of process, Malik should not be resysopped if he intends to retire. If I may: suggest amending the motion to read: "1. Malik Shabazz is hereby resysopped may be resysopped at his request if he intends to return to active editing, and is reminded that use of the tools while blocked is prohibited." (changes in green) I don't believe this alters the spirit of the motion, and I, like others, hope that Malik does decide to return. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 14:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@John Carter and Nishidani: The idea of limiting certain topic areas to editors with a higher number of edits is not new. I came across a discussion some time ago on a page which had a restriction requiring something like users at least 30 days old with at least 200 edits (a much higher bar than 4 days/10 edits). Of course I can't remember where that was now or I would link to it; hopefully someone else watching this maelstrom recognizes what I'm talking about. I'd be interested to hear if that has helped to calm the environment there. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 21:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Beyond My Ken

Very little to say here:

  • My observation of and limited experience with Malik Shabazz have been uniformly positive. This appears to be a fairly singular incident, albeit a rather serious one, and ArbCom should take his exemplary editing and administrating history into account.
  • Neverthless, I endorse the temporary desysopping. Under the circumstances it was warranted and justified.
  • I believe the the Committee should accept a full case to delve into the circumstances of the provocations of Brad_Dyer towards Malik Shabazz. Since the case might end up in a permanent desysopping (although I don't think it will and don't believe it should), it can't be handled by the community, or, rather, if the community handles it it will probably just wind up here anyway. BMK (talk) 03:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's a little weird how this case requested mutated into a review of the P/I circumstance. I hope the committee is able to make some headway there, although the ongoing situation in the RW might be a good indication of the difficulty of doing so. On the other hand, if ArbCom is able to come up with something new, maybe it could be applied to RL. BMK (talk) 02:08, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dave Dial

It's as if nobody on ArbCom knows Malik. I agree that his actions deserve a block, and if a continued use of the tools, a temporary desysop. But Malik has been one of the best and most level headed admins on the project. This seems to be a very hasty response with little to no thought about the individual and the character of that individual. Dave Dial (talk) 04:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC) @Seraphimblade: Uggg, so ArbCom must accept this 'case' and further deliberate to death what should be dealt with using patience and common sense? By all means, don't wait a few days for some of the heat to die down. Bahhh. There is no pattern of this type of behavior, there is no need to examine the intricacies of the whys and hows. It's obvious. Sorry, this will be my last comment here. I respect ArbCom members volunteering their time for the project, but..... Dave Dial (talk) 16:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Avraham

I try not to get involved in Arbcom discussions, but I feel compelled to speak, if only as a character reference. I have dealt with Malik for many years now—often on actuarial related topics, sometimes on Judaism or Israel related topics. We often do not agree, but he has, to the best of my recollection, always comported himself with dignity, class, and great reserve. He has done so for years, even dealing in some of the more tendentious areas of the encyclopedia. As I can best understand it, in this instance, his prodigious patience ran out. So, yes, he was actively violating the civility norms; unquestionably. For that he was blocked as a protective measure to prevent further escalation. Similarly, the talk page block was appropriate.

My concern is for the apparent rush to desysop. As noted in the original request, Malik has been an admin for 8 years, and an active one for that time. I am of the firm belief that no admin should get any special treatment just for being a member of that class. I am of the same level of belief that every editor needs to be judged in the context of his or her history, regardless of class. Malik is not a problem editor; nor is he is a problem admin. Just the opposite. This week, though, Malik lost his temper, his cool, his reserve, and his will-power, and let his frustration, anger, and emotion get the better of his common sense and good judgment. That is not desysop-worthy in my opinion. A reminder that as an admin he should act as befits an officer and a gentleman is warranted. Perhaps an outright warning as well, but a knee-jerk desysop of someone whose years of history and tens of thousands of civil and respectful edits—content and maintenance both—would be punitive and not preventative, and giving one incident out-sized weight, in my opinion. Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 04:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Malik's retirement is clearly a net loss for the project. If anything positive comes out of this fiasco, it is my opinion that it should be 1) that we finally put our money where our mouths are and civility should be enforced and 2) as social construct, common sense and wisdom should temper rote bureaucracy. -- Avi (talk) 14:37, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, this case is a counter-example to what I meant when I said "the formality of an Arbcom case is a feature, not a bug." A measured response was called for, not an emergency desysop. I believe even a cursory review of Malik's history would indicate that he was not going to cause any immediate disruption to Wikipedia, which is the purpose of an emergency desysop. -- Avi (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I echo and re-echo StevenJ81's frustration and would urge ArbCom to use this incident as a springboard to implement some real cleanup of the most difficult areas of Wikipedia, with a focus on cleaning up the SPA/Troll/Attack accounts on all sides. I don't know if an edit count minimum is the right way to go; if anything, I'm afraid that caters to those who know how to work our system. Perhaps something like a 1-strike and you're topic banned for a week for certain violations. 3RR would probably not be one, as it's easy to get caught up, but ad hominem attacks, or even insulting throw-away comments would result in a wide-area topic ban. Refusing to use the talk page is another. Put serious repercussions on the behaviours that prevent, if not collegial, then at least cordial editing. -- Avi (talk) 18:29, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@WJBScribe and Doug Weller: Per Malik's own statement about failing his own recall criteria, I think he has made a public decleration that were he ever to want to be an admin again, he volunteers to undergo RfA. -- Avi (talk) 15:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Zero0000, Sean.hoyland, and Kingsindian: I find your statement, Zero, to be a striking example of assuming bad faith. Automatically assuming that any new editor whose point of view isn't Palestinian is a plant aimed at violating Wikipedia's policies is something I find rather distasteful. Also, there is evidence of the same from the other side (such as Pallywood and that yahoo group years ago which was formed specifically to edit articles from a Palestinian perspective). If you have suspicions that someone is a sock of a blocked/banned user, by all means, drop the hammer. Otherwise, everyone needs to be given the assumption of good faith, whether you agree with them or not, so long as they do not violate Wikipedia policies. We may not have to agree with each others' opinions, but we need to work collaboratively as best possible. Painting people you disagree automatically without proof does not foster collaboration. -- Avi (talk) 02:54, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Zero0000:This is not the venue to discuss the various attempts by governments, quasi-governmental entities, local new organizations, or the like, to influence the I/P area. One can make the case that there are multiple Arab governments funding initiatives to color the narrative as well. As I said, irrelevant. Your statement can be taken as a form of poisoning the well against individual editors with whom you disagree. That is counter the policy of AGF and the spirit of collaboration which is necessary on Wikipedia, and especially necessary in this most contentious of areas. Again, if you have evidence that someone is violating Wikipedia policy and guideline, you know I will be first in line to protect the project, regardless of political opinion. But I reiterate that poisoning the well and the assumption of bad faith against new editors without any evidence is improper and counter to how we are all supposed to act here. And that is even if you are correct that 1) there is no difference between a public relations campaign and outright propaganda and 2) there is no similar campaign from the other side. As neither of those statements is necessarily true, honesty and integrity demand we treat everyone with the same respect so long as they do not violate our rules. And yes, blocked/banned editors (of any political persuasion) trying to evade their sanction is a clear violation. -- Avi (talk) 05:03, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Zero0000:Fair point. I do not argue that there are people with pro-Israeli positions who abuse Wikipedia. My concern is that there seems to be a theory that every "new" pro-Israeli contributor is a government plant and should be blocked on sight as opposed to new Pro-Palestinian editors. I think we are both in agreement that 1) there are serious and reasonable concerns from both sides that articles are improperly slanted and they should be corrected and 2) there are people who want to use Wikipedia as a platform to further their own political agendas or slander those who disagree with them. We need to support the former and hinder the latter. I think Sean.hoyland has a valid point where he says that most new users, from both sides, are probably not political warriors, but people whose own understanding of the conflict does not jibe with Wikipedia's, and they are trying to correct the articles. With these people, directing them to Wikipedia's pillars and some background on this morass would be helpful. If we know someone is a socks (like Brad), they should be blocked on sight. -- Avi (talk) 14:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Huldra: I was just bringing that as an example of there being issues on both sides; I know it's defunct and not a threat now. I also agree that the Israeli side is more "open" about their intent; or, at least, there are more articles about it in "mainstream" press as Sean.hoyland points out. Then again, it is not inconceivable to state that "mainstream" press is more left-leaning (Ha'aretz) and less "affectionate" of Israel (The Guardian). But it doesn't matter. 1) People who violate our principles and guidelines should be sanctioned, period. 2) Assuming anyone "new", or new to the area, has a diabolical plan to mislead Wikipedia is improper and an assumption of bad faith. You, I, Sean, Zero0000, Tiamut all had to start somewhere; we were all new to the I/P conflict once upon a time. If you or Zero would have been "assumed plants" and blocked, just because you exhibited 1) knowledge of the conflict 2) knowledge of Wikipedia and 3) a point of view, that would have been a net loss. While we may have differing opinions on many of the underlying issues, I maintain that the "collegial tension" helps to balance Wikipedia properly, so that NPOV is maintained, and I appreciate your (collective) work, and the fact that you are open to bettering the project as opposed to POV-warrioring. So, Huldra, I agree with you that a suspected sock of a banned/blocked editor should probably be checked for sleepers as soon as they are blocked. That, in my understanding, is clearly allowed to protect the project. (I personally haven't done much checking in the past two years, as I am on the meta:Ombudsman commission, so for propriety, I am trying to refrain so as to be able to handle cases (if any) from EnWiki. I probably will not return to active Enwiki CU duty until March 2016) However, I maintain that Pluto2012's point of view—assuming ill intent a priori to pro-Israeli editors because there is more "open" discussion of these editors—goes against our core policy of assuming good faith. Moreover, it serves to alienate a group of editors who, with some education and information, may quickly learn our policies and guidelines and bolster the ranks of the "good" editors in this area. Someone who continues to deliberately ignore our policies and guidelines, despite respectful attempts to educate them, should be, in my opinion, subject to escalating topic bans if not worse. -- Avi (talk) 21:26, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • @Pluto2012:If your intent is that we should extend to every new editor the same courtesy and short leash, and your recount of your experience was just that, and not for supporting a different standard, then I misread you, gladly stand corrected, and tender my apologies for my misunderstanding. -- Avi (talk) 05:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sean.hoyland

I wonder which banned/blocked ethno-nationalist extremist admins are facilitating this time. Given Brad Dyer's passive aggressive nature and his whiny fucker-ness, he looks a lot like NoCal100 to me. But I guess he could be any of a number of the worst kind of Israel supporters attracted to Wikipedia who obsessively return here with the community's de facto blessing. Either way, in ARBPIA, the probability that he is a sock is certainly greater than 50%, thanks to Wikipedia's pathetically weak and time wasting defense against sockpuppetry, apparently willful blindness and tolerance for day to day POV pushing and community willingness to collaborate through discussion with liars, racists, ultranationalists, people who support ethnic cleansing etc. This is what happens when there is an almost complete lack of policing of the ARBPIA topic area coupled with the profoundly foolish and counterproductive notion that it even remotely resembles a collaborative, collegiate environment, a mantra stupidly repeated by admins over and over again. I was lucky enough to go to collage. Don't remember it being infested with sociopathic piece of shit excuses for human beings. The reality is that about half of the editors active in ARBPIA, often the most active editors, are ethno-nationalist extremists or thereabouts, who the community, for the most part, pretty much allows to get away with their abusive misuse of the site. Good people, highly involved admins like Malik, could make the topic area a genuinely collaborative collegiate environment by getting rid of the many truly appalling people who come here to advocate by simply blocking them on sight - it's easy to recognize people who come to Wikipedia to advocate. But instead Malik's 'involved' hands are tied and he is subjected to Wikipedia's weak and pointless version of tar and feathers. One day admins will need to face up to the reality that they have lost control of an entire topic area and that it has consequences. Sean.hoyland - talk 07:42, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Meanwhile, I'll wager that 'Brad Dyer' (who I assume is NoCal100 - but what difference does it make really), has highlighted the futility of blocks, topic bans, this discussion, and the existence of admins by simply switching to the reactivated EscEscEsc account. Give it up guys, you are wasting your time. Better to shut ARBPIA down like an unsafe work place (it's only a few thousand articles) and bring it back when there are tools available that effectively protect people and content. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:30, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsindian:, this may interest you. A while back I tried to have a look at socking, 500 edit limits, AGF and the effects of semi-protection for a prominent ARBPIA article. It's debatable whether any useful conclusions can be drawn from the results given the small sample size, but I'm not sure whether you have seen it before. One of the banned/blocked editors at that time is still active of course (via both registered accounts and multiple IPs). You just reverted them here, Buenos Aires based Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/AndresHerutJaim at the article that started this whole thing with Malik. Malik is gone, AndresHerutJaim a racist, ultra-nationalist sociopath who lies without hesitation (but is very civil on wiki - civility being a valuable tool to manipulate people), is still here. Sean.hoyland - talk 07:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(Just for other users, the relevant permalinks are: this and this.) Kingsindian ♝♚ 08:59, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsindian:, I've uploaded results for 2 more articles for what it's worth (not much), 2012 Tel Aviv bus bombing ( pdf) and Operation Damocles (pdf). Regarding "if we look at a set of articles, the first probability [sock] will likely stay the same or decrease, but the second one [non-sock] is likely to increase", I really have no idea, but I'm guessing that the figures for a large set of articles would have a large variance. I don't know what I think about the 500 edit requirement anymore. It would probably prevent some innocent well meaning people acting in good faith from editing (people who actually deserve civility and all the good things Wikipedia has to offer), but maybe that's a good thing because the reality is that Wikipedia can't provide a safe and collaborative environment for those kinds of people right now. There's a duty of care, I would hope, and no one should have to collaborate with (or hunt) sociopaths and fanatics simply because they want to edit a tiny part of a very large encyclopedia. More importantly though, like you, I don't think it would work, but I've been wrong thousands of times. I don't think it would work because I don't think 'Wikipedia' really understands and appreciates the creeping normality in ARBPIA, the widespread casual fanaticism, ultra-nationalism and undercurrent of bigotry that fuels the fire. I would get rid of anonymity and allow involved admins to do as they please, and accept that there will be mistakes/collateral damage - whatever it takes to get the topic area under control. Sean.hoyland - talk 12:17, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsindian:, I appreciate your thoughtful reply and I agree that WP:GLUE is a good essay, too good for ARBPIA I suspect. Problem is, I used to be like you. Now I'm not. One thing leads to another and after a few years in ARBPIA you are asking yourself, "I wonder how Colonel Walter E. Kurtz would resolve this conundrum, he seemed like a pretty reasonable guy". I don't subscribe to the view that WP:AGF and civility are nice things anymore. My experience in ARBPIA is that the people who hold pretty reprehensible and/or foolish views and act on those in ways that degrade the content and cause conflict and disruption usually do so in good faith. For me, AGF and civility are also too often collaborating with the enemy and appeasement because in ARBPIA WP:NOTBATTLE is not true. With views like this I can't edit in the topic area anymore. As for AGF with socks/trolls, and other techniques to reveal tells, I think if a content editor has to waste even a few minutes of their life dealing with socks/trolls/POV pushers, Wikipedia has failed to protect the topic area and the editor should probably do something else until things are fixed. How many edits have you managed to make in ARBPIA so far? NGO Monitor made 3,874 (identified in part thanks to Malik), the socks of banned and blocked users have made tens of thousands and will no doubt make tens of thousands more regardless of how much time editors spend dealing with them, unless something changes.

On your second point, I think your are right about the way (genuine) new contributors are added to the WP editor pool, but you are a rarity, and in ARBPIA, editors who try to comply with content policy will be treated as pro-Palestinian activists because apparently reality has a well-known pro-Palestinian bias.

On your third point, I think the number of new editors unsuited to ARBPIA, editors with what I regard as a conflict of interest (but Wikipedia apparently doesn't), editors with puzzling beliefs like Israelis and Palestinians having a different intrinsic value, has always exceeded and will always exceed the number of editors genuinely suited to ARBPIA. So, for me it should (unfortunately) be about brutally suppressing the bad and hoping the good editors will flourish. This is something I've never understood at all by the way - why won't editors stay away from topics that they cannot possibly edit without convolving their views with the article? Why is the wording of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Editors_counseled so wishy-washy? Why doesn't anyone care that it has been completely ignored for years? When we first moved here we used to live at the Wireless road end of block that was bombed in Bangkok this week. I've walked past the shrine countless times of course. Am I editing the article about the bombing? No way. That would be dumb, as would editing any topic where I have a conflict of interest because of strong personal views or things where I might forget that I'm not a reliable source. I think this is one of the fundamental problems in ARBPIA, conflict of interest (in good or bad faith, it doesn't matter which in practice) and the misplaced belief that systemic problems get fixed, when in fact, they don't, they get worse. The editor pool is perhaps large enough already. I think the ARBCOM mandated Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jerusalem case showed that sanity and policy can prevail (together with a couple of other rare examples) when the community acts and drowns out editors unsuited to ARBPIA. But even there, so much time was wasted dealing with people saying pointless things (in good faith) because they personally believed those things to be true, people with a very clear conflict of interest. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: et al, I'm skeptical about the significance of the various recruitment drives/training programs intended to correct the anti-Semitic pro-Arab lies in Wikipedia that demonize Israel and dehumanize Israelis by reflecting the content of reliable sources according to policy, rather than using apparently better pro-Israel sources, including ethno-nationalist extremist NGOs who do such fine work. I haven't personally seen what I would regard as decent evidence of those efforts significantly impacting on ARBPIA's demographics or the bearing of its political compass. I think Kingsindian's story is probably the norm, people mostly wandering into ARBPIA or something in the press or Wikipedia catching their eye. I don't think you need to recruit and train people to advocate anyway because, puzzlingly, they do it naturally. Wikipedia isn't technically challenging for young devotees I guess, it allows people to advocate for the truth as they see it in every edit they make and can't stop them from doing it even if it wanted to. I agree that people misidentify some new editors as socks, but I think that is perhaps because those editors consistently (and often ignorantly and/or offensively) advocate for their cause in a way that to long-term editors is cookie-cutter advocacy. After a while you've heard it all before and one POV-pusher acting in good faith looks like another banned/blocked POV-pusher (also acting in good faith for the good of Wikipedia from their perspective).

I think looking at an article like Iran–Israel relations is more informative than thinking about external recruitment and its effects. I see that in Talk:Iran–Israel_relations#Syria you are following the rules, assuming good faith and trying to collaborate, but I suspect that it's a waste of time. Who are these people adding incidents between Israel and Syria to the page without sources specifically indicate Iranian involvement? They are socks Wlglunight93/Averysoda and the IP socks of Argentina based AndresHerutJaim. The chance of apparently new editor 'AttacksinSyria' not being a sock of one of those guys is probably approximately 0. Perhaps you will see new editor 'Beukford' over there shortly.

I find it surprising that people are repeating the same Wiki-mantras as if they mean anything in practice. AGF, what Wikipedia calls 'collaboration', blocking, topic bans, civility, editing warring restrictions, SPI, everything that Wikipedia has been doing for over a decade doesn't work in ARBPIA and related articles that attract advocates. Many people can and will do as they please for the sake of their cause here, they will have a very significant impact and not a thing can be done about it right now. Wikipedia needs to try something different. Maybe try operating the topic area like an occupied territory, erect barriers, restrict movement, colonize space to exclude, patrol 24 hours, shoot first, ask questions later, rain artillery down on the guilty and innocent alike and hope that it will achieve something. Who knows? Sean.hoyland - talk 12:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by involved Kingsindian

Some background: I actually made the edits which were at the bottom of the ANI mess. The material was not added by MShabazz, as Brad Dyer mistakenly stated. As I stated on the talk page, the revert by Brad Dyer seemed rather WP:POINTy to me. (I am not accusing Brad Dyer of anything in the following) I do want to note, however, the routine socking which goes on in this area, which MShabazz is quite familiar with. I reported two socks (sock1, sock2) of Wlglunight93 just in the past month, and another user reported a long-time sock of NoCal100 (sock), active for years. I have ran into them tag-teaming (see for example the RfC here which I started, also here). I am actually pretty sure that NoCal100 is back, and I even know who it is, but I don't have the evidence yet. Kingsindian ♝♚ 09:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree with Avraham sentiments, I feel that the solutions he proposes would make the matter worse. We don't need more decorum in this area, and enforced "cordiality" is not to the point: we need to hunt for socks, POV pushers and vandals. If we topic-ban people for violating decorum and "cordiality", it is a standing invitation for trolls and socks to goad users to overreact, as Malik did here (I am not accusing Brad Dyer of anything). This is not a theoretical complaint: one of the major socks in this area (NoCal100) specializes in exactly this. The thing here is that some of the massive POV pushing in this area can be seen only if the editors are somewhat WP:INVOLVED, but WP forces admins to be uninvolved, so admins focus only on conduct, while forgetting about content. Kingsindian ♝♚ 22:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Panyd has been cited by a couple of arbs in their voting rationales. I find their argument dubious in the extreme. Are we really supposed to believe that this diff is not baiting by a troll? This happens a couple days after Malik reverted a copyvio of Brad's on another page. Brad helpfully stalks him to another page which he never edited before, reverts him for alleged copyvio (of material which he didn't add), and adds a WP:DTTR for good measure. Also note the timestamp, only a short while before it all blew up. Please, WP:AGF is not a suicide pact. This kind of "equal principles" will only result in punishing of the aggrieved party. The troll will just create another account. Even laws of war have special rules for reprisals (I am not suggesting this is war, just pointing out the principle). There is nothing which compels anyone to apply "equal principles" here. Kingsindian ♝♚ 20:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment on Hammersoft's diffs, especially the "fuck off" one. I really dislike this hunting of diffs in isolation. Diffs are just a technical method to save space and computation time, they do not constitute a conversation. Here is what happened. Miraclexix, a "new" user, appears on Malik's talk page to ask about WP:ARBPIA. Malik, painfully polite, replies to each of his points, and gives useful suggestions. After massive POV pushing on this page (all of which was reverted by multiple editors), Miraclexix repeatedly template bombs Malik's talk page. Malik starts with "thanks for the warning", then "taking out the trash", finally "fuck off". Please, tell me we should assume WP:AGF here. Kingsindian ♝♚ 21:29, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I will like to remind Hammersoft that WP:COPYVIO WP:HARASS and WP:NPOV are also wikipedia policies, yet nothing happened to the other editors. This context-free focus on WP:CIVIL is a recipe for disaster. This is my last comment on this matter, since I am just repeating my points. Kingsindian ♝♚ 13:46, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regards to proposals made by some people, including some who I respect a lot, to restrict editing to people in this area with 500 edits: I oppose this. The topic area is very wide, and 500 edits is lot, especially for casual editors. It may quite easily turn away editors who are enthusiastic or knowledgeable about this topic. I myself made less than 500 edits before I made my first edit to this area. Initially they were just gnoming edits, but I was led into it bit by bit, and now I am very active in this area. 500 edits is fine for a very narrowly focused article like Gamergate, but not for a wide area. Socks and trolls can easily circumvent this. Kingsindian ♝♚ 06:53, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Sean.hoyland: Your analysis is quite interesting, I hadn't seen it before. You note that >70% chance that a <500 edits user is a sock, though there exists a non-trivial chance that it is not a sock. Also, this was just one article: socks often edits lots of articles in the area, while interested non-sock users might start with something narrow (I speak from my own experience here, and some others), so if we look at a set of articles, the first probability will likely stay the same or decrease, but the second one is likely to increase. This is why I don't think this 500 edits restriction makes sense for a wide topic area like this. Kingsindian ♝♚ 09:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Sean.hoyland: I read the other files, and I have three comments. First WP:AGF is not just a nice thing, it is also useful in identifying socks/trolls. A good essay I have read and apply a lot is WP:GLUE. If one deals with socks and trolls with WP:AGF, sooner or later they shoot themselves in the foot. This is the technique I used to identify two socks of Wlglunight93 for example. However, it is quite time-intensive and there is always the chance that one will lash out at a troll, which is of course what the troll is counting on. Second, one of the very first articles in WP:ARBPIA which I worked on was 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict. This was at the height of the war, and the article was almost hourly attacked by socks, trolls and POV-pushers. I saw what was going on, but I also found many knowledgeable people who contributed in this area, which encouraged me to stick around. I think this is the way (genuine) new contributors are added to the WP editor pool. People pick some small area where they can contribute, and then see many good people working there, and then branch out. Thirdly, ultimately I think the trolls and vandals will win (perhaps they have already won), unless we can increase the editor pool here. Anything which makes entry harder will only benefit the socks and the trolls, and overly burden the good-faith editors who have to do the double job of writing content and fighting trolls. Kingsindian ♝♚ 12:46, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JzG

The Committee should take this case in order to do the following:

  1. Review Malik's long history, and restore his sysop bit after this unfortunate and no doubt temporary meltdown (it is likely there is some external mitigating factor at play, this is absolutely not characteristic of Malik).
  2. Review Brad Dyer's behaviour.

As the statements above show, Malik is normally known to be very level-headed and calm. I think I am not alone in preferring that Malik returns to active mop-duty as soon as his normal equanimity returns. Guy (Help!) 11:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Alanscottwalker

Malik, I have only had limited interaction with you and I have been impressed. You went wrong ('fight fire with fire and all burn', as they say, I think you usually know that), but, please, hopefully you can find your way back to us (perhaps not to that subject area, even though it needs much adminning). I can only offer my best wishes to you. Alanscottwalker (talk) 11:15, 18 August 2015 (UTC) (My hope is that you are not desysopped, permanently, I think part of that depends on what you want and say. I can offer further unsolicited advice at my talk page, if you want it. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:49, 18 August 2015 (UTC))[reply]

Malik, please, yes, you were harassed, and called in effect, a nigger. I see that, and others do too. It is so wrong, that that happened. For the moment or for several days, can you take your understandable frustration out, away from your keyboard? Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Twobells, It is precisely because it is condescending that it is such a racially loaded personal attack, when referring to an African-American man. "[I]t's the ultimate sign of disrespect, and is often more offensive than calling them the N-word."[1]

References

  1. ^ http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/

To reply to some belated comments below, although their comments make no difference to whether Malik is an admin, or not, as currently he is not. Malik has apologized for his inappropriate actions and retired. To put it in context, it's clear the use of jewboy was disruption to make a point, that Malik was hurt by the disruption caused by, and the harassment of him by, the sock, Brad Dyer. Malik's point was that the sock's use of sonny boy was a racial slur, just like jewboy, and it was (sonny boy has a particular connection to black face [18] and as almost all aknowledge, boy is racially loaded. So yes, Malik went wrong, as I said seven days ago, but the harping on it below is not "deescalation". Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:31, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, pleased to meet you. I cannot find a single reliable source that refers to 'sonny boy' being a racist term. Subsequently, all the debate that followed is irrelevant in that the foundation to the claim, seemingly, holds no merit, regards. Twobellst@lk 15:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Non-involved user Stifle

I have had a look at the situation. The behavior, save for using admin tools whilst blocked, would get an average user blocked for a few days at most. Admins being held to a higher standard, or otherwise, Malik Shabazz has ended up with a week block as far as I can see. A single isolated instance of using the tools inappropriately and a series of incivil edits do not seem to me to be worth going through the mill of a full-blown case.

Therefore I would urge ArbCom to decline, with a motion if necessary that Malik Shabazz is sentenced to "time served" in terms of the desysop and block, in view of his otherwise long and excellent record. My second preference would be in line with JzG. Stifle (talk) 11:04, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GorillaWarfare: A normal editor would be blocked for incivility, and indeed Malik Shabazz was. I don't see a reason for desysopping. Stifle (talk) 15:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Collect

I greatly respect Malik. The problem is that ArbCom can not be seen to hold different standards from case to case, and there is no doubt that the language used in multiple example is quite unacceptable, and that he used sysop tools in a less than circumspect manner. Sorry - there is no way to excuse many of the comments made at all, and if a normal editor made them, they would receive more than a one week block just for that. Misuse of sysop tools has, per policy, only one result. But I still like him Malik an editor, and agree on his positions many times. Collect (talk) 11:24, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Xeno

Roger Davies: I agree with Courcelles in that Level I procedures were appropriately invoked here; in the time it would have taken to implement Level II procedures, the user may have performed further administrative acts through the block during (what appears to be) a temporary lapse in judgment.

Has the committee been in contact with Malik yet? Perhaps talk page access could be restored or he could be unblocked so that he may prepare a statement? –xenotalk 12:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC) Talk page access since restored Since unblocked[reply]

Worm That Turned: Respectfully, I disagree that Level I procedures were not made out. An administrator intentionally and actively using administrative tools through a block to initiate or further a wheelwar does cause harm, if only by blatantly disregarding the social contract to which administrators are held. –xenotalk 12:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Worm That Turned

I'm a disappointed in those who agreed to a level 1 desysopping.

  • Level I procedures may be used if (a) an account appears to be obviously compromised, or is intentionally and actively using advanced permissions to cause harm in a rapid or apparently planned fashion, or (b) multiple accounts are actively wheel-warring.

Malik does not appear to be compromised or intent on causing harm in a rapid or planned fashion. 1 admin edit and it was clearly "reactive" not "planned". A simple "Don't do that" could have sorted that. I also disagree with Roger that Level 2 would be appropriate.

  • Level II procedures may be used if (a) the account's behaviour is inconsistent with the level of trust required for its associated advanced permissions, and (b) no satisfactory explanation is forthcoming. (my bolding)

I'm assuming no explanation was requested. Simply, Malik should not have had his tools removed. He should have been told to stop and then a case if necessary. The administrative action was over his edit and he unhiding it. There's all sorts of arguments over whether it should be deleted or not, but it's not a simple case of him intending to cause harm.
Now that I've registered my disappointment, we should look forward. Malik, who I've not worked with but believe the testimony's to his character, was clearly provoked here. Yes, his actions were unacceptable, but that was dealt with by the community. I'd like to see Malik contact the committee, admit he was out of order there and have the tools returned. Don't put a massive amount of hoops in the way here - a simple explanation (which should be bloody obvious anyway) is all that should be needed. WormTT(talk) 12:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Xeno, there's a different between where we are and where we should be. I'd support a temporary desysop procedure for situations like this, but Arbcom's "Level 1" procedures are not them. There are VERY strict circumstances that Level 1 desysop procedures should be used - compromised account, or intentionally and actively using advanced permissions to cause harm in a rapid or apparently planned fashion. The harm caused is debatable. The planned fashion completely out - this was completely reactive over reach of power. Like I say, there's 5 names who voted for that the desysop that... well, I'm disappointed in. I wasn't there, I'm not going to criticise too much - but I stand by my statement "it was the wrong decision". WormTT(talk) 12:46, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
NativeForeigner, just do it, there's enough support to see how it turns out - a Level 1 desysop was the wrong decision, taking a step to make it right is a step in the right direction. Even if it's just a motion that "Malik can request return of the tool if he decides to return"... it's the right thing to do. WormTT(talk) 07:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WJBscribe

Just to note that I have restored Malik's ability to edit his own talkpage. Given that there are proceedings here, I think he should be able to post a public statement before his block is due to expire if he so chooses. Talkpage editing restrictions should be a last resort and, even the restriction was needed at the time, it hopefully isn't now. WJBscribe (talk) 12:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller: Firstly, a process point: I assume that your edit to the proposed motion is intended to mean that: (1) Malik can request the tools back; and (2) that the circumstances of his desysop should not be considered to be controversial circumstances by the bureaucrat who actions his request (i.e. the usual bureaucrat discretion when dealing with resysop requests does not apply)? I think it would be helpful if this were made clear.
Second, I am not sure that the edited motion sends quite the same message as the motion that has been voted on so far, and should perhaps be an alternative for consideration rather than a substitute. The onus would now be on Malik to take a positive step to regain his tools. If ArbCom's view is that there is no longer a need for an emergency desysop, and the conduct does not warrant permanent desysop, shouldn't the user get their rights back without having to ask for them? WJBscribe (talk) 15:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Pluto2012: I have blocked AttacksinSyria (talk · contribs) indefinitely. I suspect any uninvolved admin would have done the same: (1) The account's only edits were edit warring on controversial topics; (2) The username is clearly meant to be provocative; And (3), in addition, their edits were restoring content previously added by a sockpuppet. Is there a reason why you raised this here? I would have hoped that our existing processes are OK for bringing such accounts to the attention of administrators. WJBscribe (talk) 11:58, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Davey2010

Personally I don't think this should be accepted - As far as I'm aware Malik's never once gotten pissed off with anyone - Infact he's always been polite and calm with everyone, Even when trolls come to his talkpage he simply shrugs it off and gets on with it, Everyone on this project loses there shit at times (myself included) so I don't really think it's right nor fair to bring an Admin to Arbcom over his outburst which looks to have been his first in the 8 years he's been here. –Davey2010Talk 13:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by DrKiernan

Black youth and artistes seem to revel in using the word nigger, and no-one says they are racist. So, is it racist for a Jewish person to use the word jewboy? Probably not, especially when it is used in a remark that is clearly satirical. DrKiernan (talk) 13:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, I don't think it's possible to call a black Jew a racist, and expect to be taken seriously. DrKiernan (talk) 16:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (uninvolved, but upset) StevenJ81

I would have taken the time to write my own opinion in support of Malik. But as of about 15 minutes ago, there is now a "RETIRED" template up on his talk page. So I think some of the high-and-mighty ArbCom/Bureaucrat/Steward types who are buzzing around this page better figure out now how this project can possibly continue when effective, responsible contributors and administrators can get bullied and slurred to the point where they want to leave. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Chillum, if you and others around here are really that heartbroken, then let's figure out a way to fix some of this stuff. There are a lot of people with a lot of fancy flags who wouldn't even dream of touching some of the stuff that Malik was willing to work on. And yet those people dare to criticize?
Really, only a little bit of this is about the particular case at hand. It's a much more general problem.
I appreciate how politically contentious this topic area is. And I really appreciate that Wikipedia is open, in principle, to editing by anyone, any time, no matter what. But at this point, something's got to give.
So what's going to give? This topic area is already de facto not open to "everyone" to edit, because a lot of good, dedicated people (like me, I'd like to think) can't stand being there, and so won't edit there. Except for guys like Malik, increasingly only the nutcases (on both sides) are left. In my view, this area has got to be left to experienced editors, and even experienced editors need to have their edits vetted (à la pending changes). If you're going to complain to me that a rule like that violates "open to everyone", I will repeat: it's already not open to everyone. So in that case, we might as well concede that, and try to create an encyclopedia that is of high quality.
Frustratedly, StevenJ81 (talk) 17:55, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Chillum: Responded there. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment on @Courcelles's suggestion of about 20:30 UTC: I fully support that, though don't be surprised if Malik doesn't come back, or doesn't come back for a while. The system as it is now doesn't work. Period. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. In support of Doug Weller's motion below, I would add: I think the ArbCom should consider the absolutely radical, unprecedented, inappropriate action of full-protecting EVERY SINGLE, SOLITARY PAGE in this topic area until this matter is settled. Malik was one of the few effective cops on the beat. I'm willing to bet that this now becomes an absolutely, positively unmanageable battlezone now. I have NO CONFIDENCE WHATSOEVER in Administrators' and ArbCom's ability to manage this now. So I strongly suggest it be completely locked down for the time being.
  2. To Thryduulf and Gorilla Warfare, since you have just done the equivalent of kicking Malik while he's on the ground, I badly want to throw similar invective at you. But I won't, for fear of being blocked. Instead, let me just say this. I hope, in my heart of hearts, that in the real world, someone walks up to you, or better yet: to your mother, with you present, and calls her just as ugly a name as Malik was called. Maybe, then, you'll have a clue as to what just happened. Until then, you have no clue whatsoever. And people with no clue whatsoever have no business being on ArbCom. Just saying ... StevenJ81 (talk) 17:51, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please understand that I am not at all condoning the behaviour that Malik was subjected to. I am however condemning equally the breaches of civility by both parties - two wrongs do not make a right. See also the comments by Panyd below, particularly "[I]f we don't address both the instances of incivility here, nobody will care the next time someone calls you [Mike] 'sonny boy' either. Why should they?". Thryduulf (talk) 18:02, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'll accept that provisionally. But I think you're still missing a couple of things here. First, there is a reflexive instinct here to treat both parties' offenses equally, especially if you're ArbCom. But that would not be appropriate here. In an argument between an experienced, respected Wikipedia administrator and a troll, the experienced colleague ought to have our support, or at least the initial benefit of the doubt. Period. And if you will argue that on ArbCom you can't be that way, I'd respond: Maybe—but since he's already said he's not coming back, you didn't have to add insult to injury by saying you don't want this case to be connected to Mike's name. Second, I'm still not sure that you fully understand that the real problem was the fact that it got to this point at all, because of the atmosphere in this topic area. What Mike did was a consequence, not the main event. And I don't believe that there is a snowball's chance in, er, Hades, that ArbCom would be taking up the overall matter of this topic area if this hadn't happened. So not only is it appropriate that the case be opened in Mike's name, I would absolutely insist on it. Because he deserves some legacy that something good came out of this ugly event. And you, Thryduulf, need to recognize and appreciate that. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:22, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A level 1 desysop is absolutely always only temporary until the emergency is over and all the facts can be examined soberly and all circumstances taken into account, and until those facts have been examined I am not prepared to give support or benefit of the doubt to either party. I made the comment about the name of the case precisely because it needs to be about the overall topic area, not the conduct of one person, and arbitration cases are named to reflect their scope not as a legacy for someone who deliberately and knowingly racially abused another editor (regardless of why and/or whether it was justified). Thryduulf (talk) 18:48, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nice, bureaucratic answer there, Thryduulf. For the reasons I stated above, you should have been prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. And for the reasons I stated above, I insist that his name stay on the case. Think of it this way: if this were a court case, it would now be in court in the name of the estate of Malik Shabazz. Be WP:BOLD about that, Thryduulf. You're an experienced Wikimedian. You can manage that. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Except ArbCom is not a court, we are not dealing with Mike's estate and the names of cases are decided by the committee as a whole not by the demands of one editor, so your instance insistence(?) is irrelevant. Thryduulf (talk) 19:10, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I certainly understand that this was not some sort of unprompted outburst, and that Malik's response was very much provoked. I think it's very important to be understanding when handling conflicts that involve very personal attacks and slurs such as these. I also think it's important that Wikipedia not become a place where one racist insult is met with another. I disagree that the two offenses should be condemned equally, nor do I think they have been. The instigator has been blocked indefinitely, which I think is appropriate, and Malik Shabazz has been unblocked but also desysopped. I think this outcome is proportionate for the time being. I would be willing to discuss the possibility of a resysop if there was some dialogue with Malik Shabazz about avoiding a situation like this in the future, but given that he's stated that he has no interest in regaining the tools, they should not be returned. GorillaWarfare (talk) 19:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
My last response, then I think I'll unfollow the page for a while.
Thryduulf: my "insistence" is not enforceable, of course. But it's not irrelevant, either. The Arbitration Committee can do what it chooses on that front. But I'm entitled to my opinion, and I'm entitled to express that opinion.
Gorilla, nothing you have just said is wrong, of course. But I can't help but think that you are still confusing the sideshow with the main show. And the main show is (a) how much leverage WP:NOTHERE people have, especially (b) in contentious topic areas like this. Focus on the main event. Remember that WP:NOTHERE people don't care so much if they break rules. Remember that there is every incentive for them to come in and blow themselves up in order to take out others, and very little downside. Fix that. If you do that, you're entitled to worry about whether Malik Shabazz ought to get his rights back (in theory). If you don't, more Malik Shabazzes are just waiting to happen. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:48, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
User talk:StevenJ81 I realise you may have dropped this page from your watchlist, but I don't think it would benefit anyone, including Malik Shabazz, if we kept his name on a case coming out of this with a focus on reviewing the remedies in the Palestine-Israel case. I'm sure that if such a case does result and the outcome helps good faith editors in that area that Malik at least, and certainly others, will realise that something good came out of the original situation. I'm speaking as someone who hopes that he does come back someday and regains the tools. Doug Weller (talk) 21:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Hammersoft

There's claims here that this event, with regards to Malik Shabazz, is isolated. This is false. A cursory examination of history shows Malik to be uncivil on a number of occasions.

Everybody has bad days. But, sustained incivility is not compatible with adminship. I note that he has apparently retired. It would be problematic if this user's admin flag were restored and a case concluded this latest incident was isolated, therefore no problem. There is a problem. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:49, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Courcelles: @Euryalus: The idea of just sweeping the gross incivility under the rug as a 'bad evening' is repugnant. Thryduulf is spot on; no matter the provocation, there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for an editor, much less an administrator, to engage in the sort of depraved racist comments made by Malik. Sweeping this under the rug will effectively grant everyone leeway to insult as much as they are insulted. Is this really the Wikipedia we want to have? This, especially in light of the fact that Malik's behavior is not isolated (see my comments above), makes any notion of ignoring this and moving on simply unacceptable. Of late, we've had a lot of discussion at various locations about the fact that administrators are treated as a special class of user here, and this is why we need a community based desyopping ability. If gross, racist incivility is not enough to even rise to the level of official scrutiny at ArbCom, then it might be time to remove #3 from Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy#Scope_and_responsibilities, as ArbCom is clearly not acting in the best interests of the community in this regard. Either WP:CIVIL is policy for everyone, and WP:ADMINCOND is policy regarding admin conduct or it isn't. Decide. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:01, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Malik Shabazz: You've encouraged people to look at the context within which the four edit summaries above exist. I'd like to address a more abstract point here, rather than highlight your specific actions in those. When is incivility actionable? Should we allow incivility when it is provoked? Should we allow it if someone really truly is a moron? Should we allow it when someone actually is a <insert racial descriptor>? Or, do we say that civility here dictates that we always show respect for our fellow editor, even when the other editor doesn't appear to deserve it? I believe the latter. I don't think anger, prodding, baiting or any other 'justification' permits any of us to go off the handle and start spewing epithets of any kind. To give a base example (and I'm addressing this at no one; this is only an example), if someone were to say to an editor "You are fucking gay ass loving piece of dogshit!" it does not grant the target of that insult permission to respond in kind with their own set of insults. Someone said recently (elsewhere on the project) that fighting fire with fire only results in both parties getting burned. This is true, but it's even worse with civility. If we have two editors going at each other with insults, we get into sandbox mode of 'he threw the first insult!' and similar refutation of common decency. It brings disrepute to the project, and our inability to address this is shameful. Insults are insults, period. Either we have a WP:CIVIL policy or we do not. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsindian: See my comments just above this one. There is never an excuse for being so uncivil. I don't care what the provocation is. It does not excuse the behavior. Explain, maybe, but in no way should it ever be taken as an excuse. As to taking diffs in isolation, I noted in my opening of this statement it was a cursory examination. The point being that if I can so easily find such egregious cases of verbal abuse of other editors, then the notion that this latest case of a week and a half long angry spat isn't as isolated as some people want to make it out to be. --Hammersoft (talk) 02:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Floq

I haven't run across Malik Shabazz very often - probably because he does the hard stuff and I do the easy stuff - but the testimonials above lead me to think that the best solution to this one-off blow up is (a) allow the NPA blocks for both parties to remains in effect, or if an {{unblock}} template is used, be addressed the way typical ones are (b) return the tools with no case, contingent on an assurance from MS that this won't happen again, (c) make sure that MS realizes that this was pretty far over the line, even if there are extenuating factors, and (d) decline a case for now, let the community try to address the underlying behavioral issues with MS and BD, and accept a new case if that fails. Before I knew the background, I was originally much more upset with the epithet "Jewboy", but based on Softlavender's and DrKeirnan's comments, my understanding is that this is not evidence of actual anti-Semitic prejudice, but an attempt to hurt with words, mirroring words thrown at him. Not good, obviously, but a different kettle of fish. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • As I look into this more, I get more and more concerned that de-escalation would be (a) highly desirable, and (b) increasingly unlikely based on how we usually work. Any possibility that, now that the heat of the moment has passed, we could take the first step and preliminarily unblock and resysop, on the basis that it's not likely to be repeated, and that we might be able to salvage an apparently invaluable admin working in a nightmare topic area? An area that I am literally too chickenshit to touch? I've been one keystroke away from a Level 1 desysop myself, and that was without being refered to by a term that, to quote Drmies, "combined racism with utter disrespect, in a word that has centuries of history in American racist speak". Surely we can find a way to bend rules in such a way that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot? --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Chillum:, I would interpret his previous 8 years of apparently calm and upstanding admining in a toxic topic area as evidence he knows he can't do that. He was just called a racist epithet and snapped; surely he doesn't have to grovel? --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ritchie333

I haven't dealt with Malik much but when I have he's been a hard-working and patient administrator, one of the good guys, who is about the last person I'd expect to end up here, if I'm honest. His reaction to the message is not too different in scope to a similar incident on my talk (although I would hope it's obvious I was simply making light of the situation) and being repeatedly accused of policy violations without any proper evidence would drive anyone else up the wall. I think Malik should take a few days off to clear his head and Arbcom give him an open offer of the tools back on the condition that the next time he feels like making a personal attack, to just shout it at the monitor without pressing "Save page". It's not like he's been repeatedly disruptive all over the place; this is a one-off where things got out of hand; hence there is no reason to take a case. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Capeo

Great job, arbs. A black American male gets called sonny boy, quite literally the most insulting thing you can say to a black American male, after being hounded by an obvious sock in the most contentious editing area of the whole wiki and rather than having his back you desysop him. Well done. And the racist troll gets what? A 48 hour timeout or some such BS?. Great job, admins, as well. Capeo (talk) 15:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Soham321, are you serious? Perhaps do some research before questioning the "racial overtones" of calling a black man boy in America. Maybe start with the history of the phrase I Am a Man. A phrase that in some form or another was used by civil rights advocates from the late 1700s on to the 1960s where male blacks would march with placards saying I Am a Man. Perhaps research the Memphis Sanitation Strike in '68. A google image search will get the point across. For centuries in America adult black males were referred to as boy in a demeaning fashion to delegitimize their stature as equals. Capeo (talk) 14:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thryduulf, in regards to your comment to Steven, that's a false equivalency that anyone examining the context of the dust up dispassionately shouldn't make. That's just as bad as that ANI went. Everyone harped on "OMG, that admin is swearing at that user!!! How awful!" rather than "Holy crap, that user just basically called that admin a nigger! Ban them." Which is how it should have went. Followed by a talk with admin saying we sympathize, the situation has been taken care of, next time try not react the way you did and trust us to have your back when you report it. Instead arbcom went the nuclear route, blew up any chance to not escalate the situation and likely lost a dedicated admin. Capeo (talk) 18:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Hasteur

I believe I've never had any substantial involvement with respect to any of the primary parties to the case, but would like to note the following conditions are in play currently: Level 1 Desysoping was invoked on an Admnistrator (rightly or wrongly), Said administrator has elected to retire in chronological proximity to said desysoping, Said administrator retired while under scrutiny for their administrative actions. As such I assert that a "under a cloud" situation has occured. In order to prevent AN/ArbCom flu outbreaks in the future, should the committee with to curtail the gambit, to pass a simple motion confirming the desysop and indicating that should the editor wish to regain Administrator privileges, they should stand a new "Request for Administrator" campaign. Hasteur (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Dennis Brown: adding the under the cloud makes clear that there was cause for concern when the retiring took place and therefore a standard request for resysop would be out of order. Hasteur (talk) 16:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nishidani

This is extremely distressing . My testimonial hasn’t the authority, or neutrality one will observe in, to name the major editors who have commented whose work I admire, Avi and StevenJ81 but I agree with them, as I rue (while understanding) their decisions to withdraw from an active presence in the I/P area. It is an extremely stressful area to work, and made more so by the unending recycling of sockpuppets, and the prevalence of the sheerly incompetent with a national mission guiding their every revert,mostly ungrounded in policy. Those who work there know that half of their daily grind will consist in trying to talk reason to editors who are indifferent to the talk page, or use it in a highly desultory fashion. Brad Dyer is a disgrace to the project, but he’s not alone: at least 8 editors there, often red-linked, are destructive in their purposes. Identify laboriously one of them, and two pop up after the ban is set, hydra-like. In good part, the area has been effectively abandoned as either (a)”toxic” (b)or because the anarchic nature of editing there works out as an attritional war, where the best fall because there is simply no answer to blind attritional gamesmanship. Malik is one of the few (two or three) admins who, able to see both sides, could be relied on to enforce policy there. This is the second instance I can recall where we have lost an invaluable editor because he, on one single occasion, blew up and got tired of being polite to either an obvious sockpuppet or a nuisance provocateur. It is this fact, the success with which idle editors can achieve a massive gain – the elimination via successful provocation of an extremely good editor/admin – without having their own record or utility for the project examined, which is deeply disturbing. An encyclopedia that shows itself ready to adopt draconian measures for the rarest lapse (and the lapse was very serious) in an admin of 8 proven years of exceptional duty, while demonstrating a total insouciance to the “toxic” idiocy of editing in the area he worked in (we need, ladies and gentleman, a high bar of perhaps at least 400-500 non-I/P edits for newbies who wish to work on I/P issues), will only serve to disenchant the few masochists who put up with the nonsense, which looks as though it were being condoned by sheer negligance. How long are we to put up with this inane anarchic state of abandon, when the best admins are punished for a frailty as exceptional for his record as it is, formally, unacceptable? Nishidani (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Opabinia regalis

Of course we all agree that the comments here were way, way over the line, and we all wish Malik well. But considering the category of things that can be described as an emergency - and let's even restrict the scope to things that are emergencies on the internet - is this really in that category? A person who is being racially harassed changed the visibility of one of his own intemperate reactions while blocked? Seems more like yet another demonstration of how difficult it can be to stop the gathering momentum of Something Must Be Done. Meanwhile, the desysop was done before anyone got around to blocking the person doing the harassing.

If this case is accepted it should be about some combination of 1) this repeated pattern of unnecessary escalation by ANI stampedes, 2) the general toxicity of the topic area (which is apparent even to the entirely uninvolved), and 3) the ineffectiveness of the community at dealing with harassment, provocation, and trolling as opposed to mere "incivility". Opabinia regalis (talk) 16:37, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dennis Brown

Deysopping via Level 1 seems a bit strong, but it's done so I don't see a point in laboring it. That said, deescalating the situation would be best, and it would seem rebitting him might be in order as there isn't any immediate threat. The reason for the temporary desysopping no longer holds true. Then Arb can decide if a case is really needed, or if the community can handle it. I'm torn without looking at more details, but this is a unique blowup from an admin that has a long history of good service, so desysop may very well be the wrong long term solution. And Hasteur, "under a cloud" is meaningless because he didn't voluntarily resign the bit. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved John Carter

Granted, given my own unfortunate record, my word on its own may not mean much, and actually probably shouldn't mean much, but there is no way in hell that I can see that it is reasonable or justified to permanently desysop someone after he has been subjected to insults, like "boy," which is among the most offensive and emotionally loaded epithets one can level against an African-American. The closest thing I can think of would be calling a German of the 1950s to 1970s a "Nazi". Yeah, a lot of us, including me, at whom the insult is not directed, might not see it as being as bad as it is, but I have repeatedly heard particularly strong reactions to that term among African-Americans in St. Louis, where I live, and I have every reason to believe that the same holds true elsewhere. John Carter (talk) 19:07, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Although it has flaws, like everything else here, I actually rather like the idea of having some sort of permanent protection of certain topic areas from truly new editors, like Nishidani proposes above. There may be a few other areas of wikipedia which encounter as much controversy, maybe, I don't know. But the I/P area certainly is a longstanding point of contention which doesn't show any signs of becoming more resolved in the near future, and maybe having the creation of some new policies or guidelines or ArbCom rulings regarding how to maybe create a level above existing semi-protection to deal with such articles and topics would be a good idea. I have a really horrible feeling that a lot of the articles relating to the upcoming US presidential election would probably benefit a lot from having an additional stricter level of semi-protection available as well. John Carter (talk) 23:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Swarm: I understand and, to an extent, agree with you below. My one point of differentiation is whether, at times, "a single instance" of misconduct can extend to a brief period of time. Personally, I have to assume that, at least for some people at some times, a single instance of administrative misconduct can extend to multiple specific actions over a short time period. This might be particularly true if, for instance, the admin had just suffered some sort of real-life problem. If someone enters into editing on one day with a chip on their shoulder, as it were, and their misconduct over a period of hours extends only to one particular dispute, like on a talk page, yes, I think it might not be unreasonable to in at least some cases count that as a single incident of misconduct. I think everyone deserves at least one mistake, even administrators, and sometimes in the cases of both admins and non-admins a specific event of misconduct can extend to multiple specific acts of misconduct. John Carter (talk) 00:13, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Winkelvi

I watched this situation unfold and was certainly shocked at the racist terms being thrown around by both parties, along with the sexually-themed anger-insults. I wondered, as did other editors, why Malik's tools were removed so abruptly -- even in light of his bad choice to use the tools inappropriately following his block. My hope was that after he slept on it and a number of hours had passed that his understandable anger would have cooled and the better angels of his nature would come forth. Especially after he was unblocked earlier today. The continuation of ugly comments from him following his unblock not only shocks me but causes me to be glad he isn't getting the tools back - for now. Generally, I have always thought of Malik as a very good editor with a rougher side that would come out on occasion. The examples Hammersoft provided show a side of Malik I have actually encountered more than once - not often, but often enough for me to remember the sting of his words and actions when I was faced with them. Considering all of this, my opinion is that returning the tools sooner than later would be a mistake. My hope is that as more time passes, he will reconsider his declaration of retirement as well as the ugliness he has issued in comments along with the ugliness in comments issued against him. And that he is an administrator again, possibly on a probationary status? (if there is such a thing) If he does return, it would be hard for him to forget all of what's transpired, but even so, it would be better to have him back than to never have him back at all. He's still a net-positive in my eyes. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Huldra

The I/P area is drowning in socks, one nastier than the other, and it makes the whole area absolutely poisonous. I strongly support Nishidanis suggestion: let people have, say, 500 non-I/P edits before they can edit anything in the I/P area. It will not stop the dedicated sock, but at least we can avoid all those throw-away socks, presently 13 to the dozen. Huldra (talk) 22:51, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • I know quite a few, what I would call "Palestinian activists" in RL. And, as a group, I would say that no-one, and I mean no-one, despises Wikipedia more. Most would not touch Wikipedia for their lives. If you don´t believe me: please attend a meeting of a Palestinian solidarity group; and *tell* them you edit Wikipedia.......chances are you will receive the "respect" of, well, somewhere between a serial rapist and a child pornographer.
  • I also know that both pro-Palestinian people and pro-Palestinian groups have been actively warned against having a Wikipedia article about them. This because there is a whole "cottage industry" of pro-Israeli NGOs which dig up dirt (some would say fabricate it) about them, and this will- inevitably, get into their articles.
  • user:Avraham, the yahoo-group you mentioned was set up by already established Wikipedians; before 2009. I was not a member, but Tiamut was. And she said it was mostly inactive, and only had a dozen messages or so. To the best of my knowledge: no pro-Palestinian recruitment campaign for Wikipedia has *ever* been done.
  • Solutions? One suggestion: when socks like Brad is blocked, why isn´t there a compulsory CU? Socks virtually always have some "back-up" socks. While some sock-masters are highly competent and would probably manage not to be detected by our CU: most are not, and would be caught.

Statement by Dan Murphy

The ongoing Wikipedia experiment measuring how long "Malik" could endure near-daily racist attacks without losing his temper appears to have run its course. He made it just shy of 9 years.Dan Murphy (talk) 22:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by passerby User:Mangoe

I have no involvement in this other than what I can read in the links. That said it seems to me that Malik's behavior is way out of line, and even if there were no prior occasions we wouldn't tolerate this of just anyone.

OTOH I see that at least from one direction User:Floquenbeam has rendered the matter moot by blocking Brad Dyer indefinitely. Mangoe (talk) 23:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Soham321

From what i can understand Malik's main grievance seems to be that Brad called him "sonny boy" and that this is something unacceptable to say to a black person which Malik claims he is. He is not the least apologetic about the abusive words he has directed at Brad: "asshole", "fucking stupid", "too stupid to edit wikipedia", etc. In fact Malik continues to show defiance and continues to use abusive language after he was unblocked ("You can all suck my balls, assholes.") I have been observing Malik for quite some time now since he regularly participates on some pages which are of some interest to me. I will clarify that i only saw him fighting obvious vandals on such pages; he never interacted with me and never reverted any of my edits.(I have also never interacted with Brad.) I had a good opinion of Malik uptill now. I find the words Malik used for Brad to be unacceptable, particularly so for an Admin who is supposed to display exemplary behavior. This is also not a one off case of Malik flying off the handle as Hammersoft has shown in this discussion. So unless Malik shows some remorse for what he has done, i am afraid he cannot be shown leniency just as Zinedine Zidane, the greatest footballer of his era, was not shown leniency when he did not follow the rules and gave a head butt to Materazzi after the latter had directed some provocative words towards him. I am also not sure how "sonny boy" has racist overtones as Malik seems to be insinuating. Sonny Boy is also the name of a song sung in the year Eddie Fisher was born; Fisher's family nickname became "Sonny Boy" after the hit song; Fisher was a caucasian. I am not claiming that Brad was completely blameless, but overall the entire incident seems to be an example of Malik being supersensitive about his alleged race.

Having said all this, does Brad really deserve to be given an indefinite block by an Admin? He did behave in a somewhat aggressive way towards Malik and he did use the words "sonny boy" but giving him an indefinite block for this comes across as an unacceptable exercise of Admin power. A warning, of the kind Chillum had given Brad, should have sufficed in my opinion.Soham321 (talk) 23:31, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In view of the comments on this page (at least one of which was specifically directed at me) and on the TP of other editors, i will just state that there is a genuine difference of opinion on whether 'sonny boy' should be considered a racist taunt. On Jimbo's TP, Iridescent writes that the phrase "sonny boy" is "belittling but has no racial connotations at all anywhere other than some parts of the US." Drmies responds by saying that the word 'boy' when used for a black man is definitely a racist word all over the US.Acroterion agrees with Drmies. However, Malerooster writes: just for the record, "sonny boy" as originally coined 50 years, 75 years, 100? ago, had ZERO racial connotations, period. I do agree that the use of "boy" directed at an Africam-American adult is one of the worst things, after the n word, that can be said and does have a long history. Just so that we are clear, Brad had used the words 'sonny boy' for Malik and not the word 'boy'. There is one other thing, and that is that as Twobells has pointed out on my TP, WP is not a US centric site. 'Boy' may be a racist word in the US, but it is not so in India. As Twobells writes: it deeply troubles me that language is being policed a little too strictly in the last few years and offence taken where none is given, or at least not explicitly implied, remember, the English-speaking nations are modern, liberal democracies where giving offence in the pursuit of debate is the accepted norm, being a by-product of democracy.

I will add here that a race related controversy had broken out between Australia and India when the cricket teams of the two countries had played a match. The Australian Andrew Symonds, who is half black, was called 'Monkey' by the Indian cricketer Harbhajan Singh. The Australians made a complaint of racism to the match officials. The Indian defense was that the Australians had been calling them 'bastards' which is a highly derogatory term to use against anyone in India since it is taken to be an insult to one's parents. Moreover, it was pointed out in the media that the word 'monkey' has no racist connotation in India. In fact, a prominent Hindu God is the monkey God Hanuman. A significant section of the Australian media had criticized the Australian team (the match had taken place in Australia), and one Australian paper had injected some humor into the controversy by superimposing the face of Symonds on the body of the Monkey God. More on this here, here, and here.

Mohanbhan has correctly stated on my TP that just as the word 'nigger' is unacceptable, so the word 'untouchable' for a low caste Indian should also be considered unacceptable. (Under the Indian constitution, it is illegal to call anyone an 'untouchable'). Calling Dr Ambedkar, who framed the Indian constitution, an 'untouchable' (as a senior editor on WP has been doing persistently) should be deemed unacceptable according to Mohan; personally i think it is akin to calling Martin Luther King a nigger.

I would request Arb to keep the above in mind when framing any WP policy related to racism. Soham321 (talk) 22:37, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I also request Arb to take a look at the WP page of Martin Bashir, specifically the section describing the circumstances in which Bashir lost his job at MSNBC. This was evidently a case of a black person being supersensitive about his race and overreacting to a perceived insult. And, finally, here is Sheriff J.W. Pepper of Louisiana calling James Bond a 'boy'. Notice also how a police man talking to J.W. Pepper refers to the other cops on the scene as 'boys'. And here is the same J.W. Pepper calling a black man a 'boy'. Soham321 (talk) 23:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Wikimedes

While it seems reasonable to temporarily desysop a blocked admin to keep him/her from using the tools while blocked, having to claim that using the tools was an imminent danger to Wikipedia to accomplish the desysopping led to a lot of unnecessary drama. It might be useful to have a standard procedure in place to keep a blocked admin from using the tools (a second time) while blocked.

I hope that both blocked parties will return after they and the community have time to cool off. --Wikimedes (talk) 09:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Panyd

Are we going to enforce our own rules or are we not? Civility is one of the five pillars this encyclopedia is supposedly built on and yet again and again we see gross personal attacks and verbal abuse of our editors and stand by and do nothing.

I thought we wanted to create an inclusive community. I thought we wanted Wikipedia to be a welcoming place for all. When an administrator, who is supposed to lead by example and to behave in a respectful, civil manner in their interactions with others starts calling another user 'Jewboy' for any reason, and we do nothing, (bar a tiny slap on the wrist of course) we deserve all of the scorn and media derision we decry as unfair.

And if Brad called a user who identifies as black 'Sonny boy'[19], then yes, that user needs a review too. However, 'sonny boy' does not give Malik impunity in telling another user to 'suck my dick'[20]. Or another two users [21].

When Malik asks 'what's next? Calling black people niggers?' [22] I have to ask who on Earth he's addressing. The user who thought 'Jewboy' was an acceptable way to speak about another editor? Yes, I would certainly expect that user to move onto calling others 'niggers' - and I would certainly believe that any community who thought 'Jewboy' was acceptable to go ahead and allow 'nigger' to start entering our daily discourse.

The Arbitration Principles say that Personal attacks which occur during the course of Arbitration either on the Arbitration pages or on the talk pages of the arbitrators fall within the jurisdiction of the Arbitration. - has the edit repeating the 'Jewboy' epithet[23] not met this criteria? Seriously. Do we give one single toss about civility or not? PanydThe muffin is not subtle 09:24, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Softlavender: - no, it does not. I understand the argument, but I could call someone 'a fucking loony' and my status as a certified crazy person wouldn't make that less of a personal attack. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 10:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Malik Shabazz: - you say (Nobody cared about his personal attacks either, but that's par for the course.) - do you want this to change? I want this to change, and in order to do that a case like this needs bringing forward. As others have said, I don't think anyone wants you to grovel or throw yourself at a lion - but if we don't address both the instances of incivility here, nobody will care the next time someone calls you 'sonny boy' either. Why should they? (Again, I do care. That shouldn't have happened. We should act on this stuff) PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved NebY

Malik did not use his admin tools while blocked and involved to delete or undelete an article, block or unblock an editor, or wheel-war with another admin. He performed a revdel that was requested. As he was blocked, involved and angry in a heated situation, a preventative desysop was a reasonable measure but permanent desysopping would not be clearly proportionate or necessary (compare suspending or dismissing an employee). A statement such as GorillaWarfare's "Malik Shabazz misused his administrative tools to the extent that it required a level 1 desysop" could easily be read as suggesting misuse on multiple occasions or in a major action. Can we be clear that that's not the case? NebY (talk) 16:37, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Modernist

Over the past 9 or ten years my encounters with Malik have always been productive, respectful and useful. Malik Shabazz has been an enormous asset to wikipedia. He has comported himself well over an enormous period of time - editing and essentially providing judicious expertise most of the time. In my opinion he should not be desysopped permanently but should retain his position as an administrator. Seems like every once in a while we all want to explode; this place can do it to you; point being it isn't necessary to condemn someone for getting seriously pissed after being severely provoked...Modernist (talk) 19:04, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Wikimandia

If your average editor behaved in such a way, ragequit included, there would be a very lengthy ban in place, end of question. Admins should be held to a higher standard than your average editor. The only one using profanity, the N word and "JewBoy" was Malik. Anyone can claim to be anything on here (black, white, purple, Muslim, Jewish etc) - nobody should get a pass on being allowed to say slurs by way of their own ethnic makeup. —МандичкаYO 😜 03:23, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Count Iblis

My recommendation would be for ArbCom to abolish this whole AN/I cesspool, and also set up a new RFA process where candidates are accepted based on an expert evaluation, desysop all sitting Admins who were appointed by the old system, they can get their tools back if they go successfully go through the new system. AN/I should be replaced by an ArbCom like system where all cases are accepted, Admins hear cases like Arbs do in ArbCom cases. This enforces good behavior within such a forum. Count Iblis (talk) 03:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Cryptic

We rely on the arbcom not to make emotional, kneejerk decisions with respect to removal of administrators' bits. That's why arbcom has the authority do so, and why ANI flashmobs do not. I echo the concerns stated by this IP; it's unfortunate he or she felt too timid or threatened or whatever to say it while logged in. —Cryptic 05:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved GregJackP

Per the norm, a minority member of WP gets race-baited and all of the Euro-American-Whites can't wait to hammer them. If one is black, NDN, or Latino, from my experience, we have to not react to blatant racism. If we do react, the non-minority editors get irritated, and we get blocked. We don't have enough content creators, and we really don't have enough minority or women content creators to be running them off.

Incivility is wrong, but understandable in this case.

Regardless, Malik is a content creator who has taken articles to both featured and good article status. Editors and admins are a dime a dozen, anyone can do either. Content creators are harder to find, and it is your job to protect them against the race-baiters. GregJackP Boomer! 07:14, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Twobells:, in the southern U.S., "sonny boy," when directed at an adult black male, is a racial slur. Malik is well aware of the insult that was being made. Race-baiting is race-baiting. Period. GregJackP Boomer! 21:06, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Shoy

Courcelles and NativeForeigner, if you don't like the revised motion, propose a different one. Even if it doesn't pass, you'll at least make your intentions known. shoy (reactions) 13:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Mrjulesd

1. What's needed is some sort of clarifying motion. Something along these lines:

The committee resolves that:

Malik has announced his retirement from English Wikipedia, and will therefore remain desysoped. However, should Malik change his mind over retirement, he is to be resysoped under the following conditions. He needs to e-mail Arbcom, and in this e-mail he must:
  1. Request the use of the admin tools.
  2. Pledge to refrain from admin tool use if he is blocked for any reason.
  3. Pledge to refrain from language incompatible with admin status.
An Arbcom member will then place a notice on WP:BN requesting his resysop.

2. Also, maybe the best way to deal with the PI conflict is to restrict editors to 6 month or older accounts with a minimum of 500 edits. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 20:01, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Lankiveil

From my uninvolved perspective, both users have directed racial abuse at each other, and obviously that can't be tolerated even under the most lenient interpretations of WP:CIVIL. I'm not going to go into which was worse than the other, both were equally unacceptable and it appears that both users have now permanently departed (with that departure being enforced on User:Brad_Dyer's part via an entirely justifiable indef block.

That said, I would urge the committee to accept this case, not to look at the I/P issue specifically, but to address the more widespread problem of racial harassment. A quick perusal of the rev-deleted and suppressed contributions at User talk:Malik Shabazz will reveal an extensive history of racist trolling and abuse. In these circumstances, it is no wonder that Malik eventually snapped, and I admire him for holding out for as long as he did under that onslaught; I doubt I'd have been able to. The committee should consider extending discretionary sanctions to all instances of racist abuse and trolling so that perpetrators can be swiftly dealt with, rather than Wikilawyering on AN/I over whether calling an African-American "boy" is really racist, as we see in some statements above. Dealing with this sort of abuse early and decisively will lead to better results for the project than taking the easy option and waiting for unpleasant incidents like this one to bring everything to a head. Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC).[reply]

Statement by Short Brigade Harvester Boris

If you want to scare off the few admins willing to stick their heads in the rural route gas station toilet otherwise known as Wikipedia's I/P topic area, by all means take this case. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:23, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved TwoBells

It has just come to my attention that the actual term employed was 'sonny boy', that actually changes everything, the term 'sonny boy' has no racial connotations anywhere as far as I know. In the English-speaking world, particularly, Great Britain and the Commonwealth nations, 'sonny boy' is a gentle, harmless term employed in everyday speech. When I first became aware of the issue I thought the issue might be a little more complex seeing as the term 'boy' does have racial connotations in the USA, however, 'sonny boy' most certainly does not. In closing, do we know the nationality of the editor concerned? It would go in his favour if he is either British or from the Commonwealth where such a term is in everyday usage with no negative connotation, regards. Twobellst@lk 08:34, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As a white British English speaker, I would most likely interpret someone calling me "sonny boy" as condescending. However it has been made very clear that to a black person from the (southern) US it is a very racist term and Mike clearly interpreted it that way. user:Brad Dyer is now marked as a sockpuppet of user:NoCal100. The last version of NoCal100's user page written by them claimed they are an American English speaker from California, so it seems probable that they knew exactly the meaning of the term they were using. Thryduulf (talk) 09:14, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Thryduulf, agreed, the term can be construed as condescending in the UK and the Commonwealth, however, being condescending is not racism. Having said that, if the editor concerned is American and the term 'sonny boy' is known to have racial connotation then by all means censor him of his use of language, best wishes. Twobellst@lk 11:15, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. edit. I have searched extensively for a source that states 'sonny boy' has racial connotations, however, to date I have yet to find a single entry. Generally the term is defined thus: a general term of address to a man or boy. ...lovable; Someone who has very great personality. Younger person with great admiration for;of Someone who makes your days brighter; brings life; Someone you have great love for; He is not as perfect as sonny boy.. [1] The very worst definition I could find was 'patronising of a young man' (1870). [2]. Subsequently, if we are suddenly banning editors and admin for being patronising we are in deep doodoo. Twobellst@lk 12:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Oxford Reference Dictionary. Chambers Harrap Publishers. 2011. Retrieved 25 August 2015.
  2. ^ Dazell, Tom (27 November 2014). The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English, page MMXCII. Routledge. Retrieved 25 August 2015.
"Sonny boy" or even "sonny" between friends or acquaintances is fine, but between people who don't like each other is insulting. And someone not from the American south who knew that 'boy' to a black person was definitely insulting might believe that "sonny boy" was too. Doug Weller (talk) 15:01, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jehochman

The misogyny and anti-semitism of the comments is unjustifiable. This person cannot be an admin. Those who want to excuse it seem to be wrapped up in groupthink and may have lost perspective. Jehochman Talk 12:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Pluto2012

The departure of Malik is a very bad thing for wikipedia. Somebody here above has pointed out that he is one of the seldom who is trusted enough to 'enforce' a decision/a solution. That's what we lack in this project and this area. Anyway, I had felt him very nervous these last time and given what has happened, I think a break from wp and from administratorship is welcome for him.

Proposal regarding I/P articles

The reasons why the area of the I/P articles are poisoned have been discussed here above. People have to understand how tiring it is to see coming back again and again socks or meatpuppet who game the system and being in the impossibility to do anything but 'discuss' again and again for nothing. There is no pleasure in spending half of one's time against this. It is poisoning and destructive to work in that area. All this for free and for a hobby. One could question the mental sanity of people keeping trying to do so. Or maybe principle it is just a question of principles.

I identify 3 ways for these socks with strong pov editing to game our system :

1. Due to policy of confidentiality, they can create new accounts undefinitely and due to WP:AGF we cannot request CU systematically. So they are eternel ;

2. Due to 1RR (or 3RR) and the equal treatment of all contributors (new or experienced ; unable to make abstraction of his/her pov's or not), they know that they will have the opportunity to defend their case on the talk page and that if they are not answered, will introduce their pov's ;

3. With experience, they learnt to use Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing. This warranties to them that the discussion can last for ever and that nobody can stop any game because of WP:AGF.

Some remedies here above were suggested, as the 500 edit count. I fear it can be gamed easily. On wp:fr, we have seen "new accounts" adding categories in articles or addings spaces in order to reach the given limit required in some elections and then sleeping some time to get the required time of existence to reach the criteria...

We could ask a 'bot' to systematically chekc the IP of newcomers and compare this with banned users or proxies but I fear this will never be accepted but the community.

Other editors have concerns about the importance of WP:AGF and WP:CIVL. WP:1RR has also proven its efficiency. But that's also here that they game us. I think we need to find a solution around here. Something that is arbitrary enough to solve the issue but so light that it will not harm our principles.

Proposal : I suggest that we keep all the articles in WP:1RR for everybody but that we offer to some contributors who have received trust from the community of contributors in that field to be exempted of 1RR and who should fall under WP:3RR. It is very important that we have enought of these with sensitivies (CIVIL and AGF versions of the work pov's) from all sides and it is also important that this is not an automatic process but that they are 'elected' or at least 'accepted'.

Doing so, we don't prevent anybody to edit. We don't prevent anybody to be listened on the talk page. But in case of abuse or delicate situation, we entrust some editors to have a little advantage to chose the right version and to have some more weight in discussions. We also don't force contributors to discuss endlessly. If somebody is not convincing, we will not lose hours and hours to face civil pov-pushing. If we have enough contributors with all sensitivitives there is no risk of problems. We come back to the situation of other areas in wp.

Pluto2012 (talk) 01:35, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a concrete case

#1 and #2. Greyshark is tagged to be rather pro-I and I am tagged to be rather pro-P. This edit is made by an obvious sock who is in infraction with WP:1RR. But given it is a newbee, he is protected by the system of warning.

  • Why could not someone block him (at sight) and support us not to spend hours in finding the right way to get rid of this sock and tire him ?

Pluto2012 (talk) 10:58, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@WJBscribe : Thank you for very much your intervention. Pluto2012 (talk) 14:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Some WP:RS on the issue and return from experience

@Avraham and @Zero0000 : I don't agree with the symetry with which Avi wants to describe the problem even if -per WP:AGF- we have to establish totally symetric principles to solve this :

The community fought "paid advocacy". Here we are 1 step further. Israel government and other groups pay people to train others to advocate for Israel on wikipedia! There is no equivalent. And as contributors on the field we have lived that.

And even if both sides are involved :

There is no symetry in the means :

"In recent years Israel has recruited hundreds of students to assist in its hasbara, or public diplomacy campaign. These individuals – some of whom are paid – act openly and covertly, many engaging in below-the-line online discussion threads to promote Israel's interests.
At the start of the [2014] conflict in Gaza students at the Interdisciplinary Centre, a private college in Herzliya, launched a social media campaign on Twitter and Facebook, "Israel Under Fire".
According to its leader, Yarden Ben-Yosef, 27, more than 400 students have volunteered for the programme (...)".

On wp:fr we found a nest of these and after several years they were finally all found and banned. They founded an association and a wiki. Their facebook page is worth reading too.

Pluto2012 (talk) 19:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Answer to Avi

@Huldra - Avraham - Zero0000:

Avi writes that: "However, I maintain that Pluto2012's point of view—assuming ill intent a priori to pro-Israeli editors because there is more "open" discussion of these editors—goes against our core policy of assuming good faith."

That's a straw man argument. I never wrote this. I wrote that we have to take care of all newcomers in the difficult area of the I/P conflict and ~that we should have more freedom to manage this because it is tiring, harms our motiviation of editing wikipedia and harms... us. What has happened with Malik illustrates this.

What I wrote, and Zero0000 and Huldra pointed out this too, it is that the situation is mainly the results of pro-I advocacy groups who are convinced that Israel is deligitimated in the media. I have documented this by wp:rs sources for those who are not aware of this. In the context of writing an article in the main, I would state that the comparison of Avraham with Yahoo is wp:undue and insisting in that direction is pov-pushing.

I am myself IRL strongly pro-I. I have arrived on the project 10 years ago and wrote several Featured Articles in the area on wp:fr. I put writing wikipedia above my convictions as a hobby and for intellectual pleasure. But as Huldra, Zero0000, and many others (!), we have been harassed and even outed at an incredible and unacceptable level.

I think the community is partly responsible of the situation for its 'inaction'. The extreme application of WP:AGF (by us) leads to WP:Civil POV pushing (by them). We (the community) should strongly support long standing editors against these dangers, wherever the problems come from and their side.

Pluto2012 (talk) 05:01, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by MarkBernstein

Three distinct issues are raised here. Notoriously and proverbially, complex cases make bad law.

First, there are the (apparent) emergency. It is past.

Second, we have the festering mess of Israel-Palestine at Wikipedia. As many, many people have noted above, this is intractable, it must be dealt with, and the few administrators willing to deal with it ought not to be dismayed by ArbCom's heavy and ill-considered hand.

Third, we have the separate problem of harassment of editors -- including administrators -- by Wikipedians seeking to achieve various ends -- often to drive the opposition away from Wikipedia or to secure their bans. ArbCom has given made this problem far, far worse with its decisions in Gender Gap, Gamergate, and Lightbreather -- each of which secured to sexual harassers the end they most devoutly sought. Not only do harassers now have a textbook; they now have a book of case studies. Meanwhile, the call for the community to develop a policy against sexual harassment -- weakest of weak tea -- has apparently foundered on an entirely-predictable lack of consensus.

So, sure: an editor can’t go around calling a sock puppet a jewboy. Nor should an editor go around calling a rival a corrupt faggot (Gamergate), a cunt (GGTF), or distribute their faked nudes (Lightbreather). It’s a waste of breath warning you, I fear: you're going to take this case. When you do, you must secure to yourself experts in US racism, in anti-semitism, and in the rhetoric of Israel-Palestine today. Failure to secure such expertise will doom you again to yet another of the blunders and narrow, humiliating escapes that have punctuated your past year.

If you can possibly muster the patience, it would be wise to leave this case to your successors. MarkBernstein (talk) 02:13, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Anthonyhcole

I've just noticed this. I closed this recent ANI report where, at Brad's request, Malik deleted his (Malik's) edit summary that Brad considered to be a personal attack. I looked at some of Brad's first edits and found a level of competence rarely found in newbies and a definite bias toward Israel. The dispute in the abovelinked ANI discussion also included Malik objecting to Brad using a 7(?) year old source to make a claim about the present, which I take to be (a mild case - in isolation - of) misrepresentation of sources by Brad.

In the Noleander case, we had an editor consistently slanting existing articles and creating slanted articles against Jews and Israel (and I think from memory misusing sources) whom this committee banned from the topic. If Brad is clearly not a new user, is misusing sources to push a view and is consistently slanting articles toward Jews and Israel, it may be appropriate to topic-ban Brad.

Thanks Sportsguy17 . --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Sportsguy17

I usually don't comment at this kind of thing (for a good reason), but it really upsets me when we lose a dedicated, long-term content contributor over a bunch of bullshit like this. This is Wikipedia failing its content contributors at its finest. A sock was able to successfully drive off Malik, who is/was exactly the kind of editor Wikipedia needs. I hope that ArbCom can figure out, through a case, how to retain content contributors and prevent a similar blip from ever occurring again. Content editors being driven off is actually a larger problem than some people think and it's very deleterious to the encyclopedia. Wikipedia needs more content editors. If ArbCom doesn't solve that problem, then trolls and socks will continue to be able to drive content editors off the project. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 13:10, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Anthonyhcole: Brad's already been indeffed for his egregious personal attacks and for driving Malik off the project...and he was found to be a NoCal100 sock, albeit I concur with your idea for a topic ban, as I'm sure we'll be hearing from him again (under a different alias, of course). Sportsguy17 (T • C) 13:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by HiDrNick

Editors have pride. Regardless of Malik's retirement, I strongly encourage the arbiters to take a public vote on the original proposed motion, "Malik Shabazz may be resysopped by a request to the Bureaucrats if he intends to return to active editing and is reminded that use of administrative tools while blocked is prohibited.".

Malik's tools were stripped away by a dubious application of WP:LEVEL1 procedures, and his retirement is a direct result of ArbCom's actions. Passing this motion would make it explicitly clear that Malik is welcome to return to editing whenever he is ready to do so, without being required to grovel to ArbCom first.

A full case seems likely to be accepted. If a fair and public hearing finds that Malik should be desysopped for his conduct, then so be it. HiDrNick! 19:18, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:HiDrNick, the case is not going to be about editors but about reviewing and perhaps revising the sanctions now in existence for Palestine-Israel related articles. Doug Weller (talk) 19:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Doug Weller: Which is all the more reason to dispense with this emergency temporary desysopping by motion, immediately. The fact that Malik has "retired" is irrelevant, and ArbCom must not use that to shirk its responsibility here. Editors get riled up, retire, cool down, and later return to productive editing all the time. But if ArbCom fails to explicitly remove this cloud, why should he ever want to come back?
If Malik's desysopping was intended to be permanent, he is entitled to a hearing, and he should not have to come asking for one. HiDrNick! 20:45, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Swarm

I'm not familiar with Malik at all, but I feel compelled to objectively provide a few obvious points for the record, if only to counter those who are blatantly clamoring for him to receive special treatment:

  • The original sanction against Malik was a minor and obviously-justifiable block that almost certainly would have been immediately overturned upon the resumption of a reasonable demeanor. It was Malik and only Malik who escalated the situation to the point of his block being extended, his desysopping and his retirement.
  • Malik willfully and knowingly misused his administrative privileges in violation of an active block and an emergency desysopping was literally the appropriate response to this.
  • Nobody on Wikipedia is irreplaceable or entitled to special treatment.
  • Being an upstanding member of the community does not absolve one of the consequences of significant misdeeds.
  • All Wikipedians know that administrators are subjected to exceptional levels of argumentativeness, incivility, personal attacks, condescension, coercion, wrongful accusations and disruptive behavior. Administrators are only given the tools if they have already demonstrated that they can be trusted by the community to withstand this for the entirety of their tenure, and yes, this includes hypothetical incidents of racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, ableism or any other forms of discriminatory, hate-fueled harassment.
  • Administrators are only human and yes of course we snap sometimes, even to the point of shameless incivility and personal attacks, and especially when provoked. I am perfectly guilty of this as are many other good administrators I'm familiar with. These incidents are virtually always overlooked and forgiven by the community. Even so, the comments made by Malik were obviously beyond the pale. The severity of his disruptive comments was obviously calculated, by far exceeded something which can be overlooked as an understandable fit of anger, persisted well beyond what could be considered to be an isolated outburst, and was directed at editors other than the one who provoked him. I completely understand why, given his long-term good standing, this drastic change in behavior is difficult for most people to comprehend, but it doesn't change the facts.
  • Looking at the big picture, I have to concur with Jehochman. The initial severe incivility and personal attacks resulting in a block, compiled with the persistence of it to the point of talk page revocation, compiled with the tool misuse, compiled with even further incivility and personal attacks after being unblocked in an attempt to deescalate, clearly renders this person unfit to continue to be an administrator. We would not tolerate this sort of behavior out of anybody and the fact that people are suggesting we should is astonishing to me. Swarm ♠ 23:39, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (user)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Malik Shabazz: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <5/4/0/2>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

Okay. Now that the level I is in effect, let us all slow down and take a breath. The use of admin tools as they were used while blocked was the major issue here. We don't level 1 for insults, even extreme ones, that is the realm of the block and revoke talk access functions. Those are the realm of a case, or a normal desysop by motion. Level I is an extremely rare thing, I would never have considered a level 1 without the direct use of the admin tools while blocked. Now we have the time to think and reflect and let everything cool down. A Level 1 is not a final decision. A level 1 is not a decision made by a majority of the committee. Now, I think we need to slow down, to let Malik Shabazz respond. The level 1 is explicitly not a final decision, and now we need to process this like a normal case request. I think what has to happen now is one of three things. Either the tools can be restored, a permanent revocation passed by normal motion, or a case opened to look this. I'm thinking this is a complicated mess, and now that the immediate problem is over, that we might actually need a case. Courcelles (talk) 02:42, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure why Roger says that Level 1 is for "situations where a (compromised or otherwise) admin account goes on the rampage inflicting damage on the encyclopedia's infrastructure." given that in any circumstance like that, a 'crat or steward would be fully justified in pulling the bit and asking questions later. And I damned well hope they would rather than waiting around for three arbs -- none of which this year have the technical ability to remove admin bits -- to sign off on something so blatant. (You could almost call that level 0, I guess) Level 1 is for things that need to be done now, and this did need to be done due to the rather obvious prohibition of a blocked admin using their tools. We use Level II for far less immediate situations, such as when an admin has been caught socking. Down to brass tacks: The presumption on a level 1 is that the tools can be restored easily in proverbial morning. What we have here is a total mess, but one that had admin tools not been used, would have been dealt with at ANI, and was being dealt with. Malik Shabazz, is, as many have said, an admin of a record of long tenure and honourable service. I'd be prepared to reverse the desysop if Malik Shabazz were to come back, and publicly commits not to ever use his tools while blocked or in a dispute again, I never, ever intended this desysop to be permanent or the final word on anything. I guess accept to look into the matter fully, including the actions of Brad Dyer and others involved. But I remain open to the idea a motion could dispose of this to most parties' satisfaction. Courcelles (talk) 08:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I also support a level 1 desysop, bringing it to the required three in favor. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Stifle: I completely disagree that someone who uses racist slurs and other clear attacks against other users should be a sysop. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:02, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @NebY: He used the administrative toolkit through a block. You're correct that it was one incident, and to my knowledge there is no pattern of similar misuse. That said, his comments were so completely out of line and his responses to questioning about them equally so, that I would have unquestionably supported a level II desysop had the misuse of tools not also been a factor. With adequate explanation and a clear statement that it wouldn't happen again, I might have been willing to excuse the misuse of tools, but with the comments he has made and with his statements that he does not wish to regain the sysop userright, restoring the tools is the wrong move. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:01, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also agree to the desysop. Compromised or not, this is absolutely not acceptable behavior for an administrator. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:51, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The desysop has been done, but per procedure this is temporary until the entire committee can review the matter. To make the timeline clear, and explain why at least I thought this had to be done by the level 1 process, was the timeline showing tools were used through the block. Courcelles (talk) 02:20, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept: this isn't really a Level I situation. Level I was intended for situations where a (compromised or otherwise) admin account goes on the rampage inflicting damage on the encyclopedia's infrastructure. Level II is more appropriate to the circumstances here: a temporary desysop pending investigation. Given Malik Shabazz's seemingly exemplary record a public case is probably the best way forward. It may also be a good time to review the Level I/Level II procedures, to see whether a better system can't be put together.  Roger Davies talk 06:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Decline - block of both parties was necessary for personal attacks. Temporary tool removal was also necessary as a preventative measure, given they were used while blocked and still engaged in the dispute. Full case is not necessary as I don't see this as a pattern of behaviour - it seems like a one-off angry reaction. Once we're confident the disruption has ceased I would support return of the tools per "Return of Permissions." On a separate issue, suggest AN or ANI consider whether this reaction is a consequence of ongoing harassment as suggested above. Should that be unproductive, would consider a case request on this subject. -- Euryalus (talk) 07:01, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept I don't think this is level I, it was clearly very far out of line but he didn't exactly go on a rampage deleting key articles or performing pagesplit vandalism. There was some background which is important to take into account in this case which hasn't really been exanined, and we should aim to be transparent as much as possible. Hence I am voting to accept this case. This may not have been a pattern of misbehavior, but it should nonetheless be examined. NativeForeigner Talk 07:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept. I was asleep when all this happened, but I would have supported the temporary desysopping had I been aware at the time and endorse my colleagues actions. This is solely on the grounds of using admin tools while blocked. Given that a level 1 desysopping has happened there needs to be a review of the whole situation to determine whether Mike should have his tools restored and whether any action needs to be taken against other parties. A public case is the best way to have this review I believe. Note that I am recused with respect to KTC and will not be passing comment on their actions. Thryduulf (talk) 07:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • To those who have said that Mike's 8 years of good, level-headed service as an admin mean that it was obvious he was not going to go on a rampage, I disagree. This act was so clearly out of character that I do not believe his past behaviour to be a good predictor of his actions when clearly very emotional (and he certainly had good reason to be), we will never be able to know what actions this emergency desysopping did or did not prevent from happening, but in my opinion it is better to be over cautious in these matters. One principle that I think needs to be stressed in the light of Mike's statement here is that two wrongs do not make a right - racist abuse is never acceptable, but being the subject of racist abuse does not make it OK for you to racially abuse somebody else, ever. Thryduulf (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept Pretty much per Thryduulf. This all went down while I too was asleep, so I'm just getting up to speed on it this morning; on the face of it, though, there are several aspects to this case which may bear examination beyond the desysop. Yunshui 雲水 09:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Striking, since I much prefer the proposal below. Yunshui 雲水 09:41, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

*Accept per Roger and NativeForeigner. Doug Weller (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Striking my accept at the moment as I agree that we should restore the tools and focus on the I-P topic problems.
  • Would there be any support for a)restoring the tools and basically saying "bad evening, let's move on, don't do it again if you ever find yourself blocked again", and b) opening a case to investigate what can be done to make the I-P topic area less toxic? To focus on the general maelstrom rather than one evening's drama? Courcelles (talk) 20:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a good idea. -- Euryalus (talk) 20:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Now that things have settled down, I would support that. Use of tools while blocked is a bright line, but I don't think one incident warrants a permanent desysop. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would be good with that. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 06:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support restoring his tools, and agree with Courcelles that editing in this area is toxic and we need to see what we can do about it. Doug Weller (talk) 08:55, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly support this, and would much prefer it over a case focussed on Malik's actions. Yunshui 雲水 09:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Had Malik not resigned his administrative permissions (per his statement), this is how I would have voted (it was the vote I typed before seeing the resignation and new motion): I sympathise with the position that we need to support administrators who break under the pressure of working in these topics, and have personally proposed committee decisions that eschew the "torch and pitchforks" reaction to similar situations. Nevertheless, in the present case I do not consider the conduct exhibited to be so easily excusable. Accept. AGK [•] 21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Motion: Malik Shabazz

The committee resolves that: :1. Malik Shabazz may be resysopped by a request to the Bureaucrats if he intends to return to active editing and is reminded that use of the tools while blocked is prohibited. As far as the committee is concerned this draws a line under the recent unfortunate events concerning this administrator.

1. The case is accepted with the aim of reviewing and if necessary modifying by motion existing sanction provisions in the prior Palestine-Israel articles case.
For this motion there are 15 active arbitrators. With 0 arbitrators abstaining, 8 support or oppose votes are a majority.
Enacted - L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 14:50, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support:
  1. Doug Weller (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  2.  Roger Davies talk 10:41, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Ideally I would prefer not to return the tools until there is a clear communication from Malik Shabazz indicating that he's not going to do this again, but I'm more interested in getting a modified case underway. Thus, tentative support from me. Yunshui 雲水 11:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  4. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:19, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Yes, though I'd note that should Malik decide to return, I'd still be happy to discuss reversing the tool removal. Level 1 removals are not intended as a final action. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:41, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Moving to support now that point 1 has been struck. I absolutely do not support restoring the tools. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:04, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  7. I support the opening of a case to look at the Palestine-Israel topic area, but not in Mike's name. Should Mike decide to unretire, I would like an examination of his conduct by the Committee before extensive editing and would actively oppose restoring administrative tools ahead of such. Thryduulf (talk) 17:33, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Distant second choice to original motion. This should have been an alt rather than a strikeout. Courcelles (talk) 21:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  9. As with courcelles. Totally gutted the point of the motion. Part of me wants to just try to pass a motion with a resysop as I firmly believe it's the right thing to do, but I'm not sure how the vote would turn out. While his behavior was out of line I really think the level I was premature and rather out of process (given how it's defined). What he did was certainly blockable, and to some degree I think he still ought to be blocked, but the sysop component bothers me more, given how it was performed. NativeForeigner Talk 06:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    FWIW I would oppose any resysop motion per my comments above and below. Thryduulf (talk) 09:07, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  10. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 18:26, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  11. AGK [•] 21:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  12. LFaraone 21:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose:
  1. I support a case as described in point 2 but do not feel that opening that case should necessarily be the end of the line for this one. I am unwilling to return the tools to Mike without either and RFA or I've seen evidence that he has calmed down and accepts that, no matter the provocation and no matter how wrong the other party's actions were, neither his use of racist epithets no his use of tools while blocked were justified or acceptable. I'm not seeking grovelling or retribution or anything of that nature, just evidence of acceptance and understanding. Thryduulf (talk) 10:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC) Moving to support now that point 1 has been struck. Thryduulf (talk) 17:33, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I also strongly endorse Panyd's comments, and they are a part of the reason I've moved this from a comment to an oppose. Thryduulf (talk) 10:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    What? Malik Shabazz misused his administrative tools to the extent that it required a level 1 desysop, and egregiously violated the civility policy with insults and racist comments. I understand that this response was not unprovoked, but why on earth are we proposing reinstating the tools with no communication from him that he wishes this to happen, or that this behavior won't continue? This very much flies in the face of the idea that everyone, regardless of tenure or privileges on the site, is expected to follow the civility policy. GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC) Moving to support now that point 1 was removed from the motion. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:04, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  2. The immediate problem has been dealt with,and I see no possibility we well be able to do anything useful about PIA. DGG ( talk ) 00:07, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Abstain:
Comments:


Comment by Arbitrators:
Tweaking this per User:Ivanvector's post above. Doug Weller (talk) 14:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And, sigh, again per Malik Shabazz's statement, which was posted since this motion, that he has retired. Thus point 1 of the motion is moot and point 2, focussing the aim of the case on the Palestine-Israel articles case is kept. Doug Weller (talk) 16:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=677795056"