Talk:Luigi Mangione

Perp walk pictures

Is there any way to get the copyright permission necessary to include some of the perp walk pictures? Eievie (talk) 20:01, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Ask a Wikipedia user in NY to take the photo? Trade (talk) 13:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 18:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that following his December 2024 arrest for murder, Luigi Mangione was described as "somewhat of an online sex symbol"? Source: https://time.com/7201952/luigi-mangione-internet-myths-essay/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/A Nail Clipper Romance
  • Comment: Driveby nom, will need to stabilise.

Created by Liamashron (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 262 past nominations.

Launchballer 13:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC).

• New enough, long enough, hook fact is interesting and well supported. Biography section would do with merging. Earwig is not happy, and looking at the results I feel like bits and bobs could be better paraphrased.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 17:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)but that's beyond the DYK purview.

Earwig is picking up a lot of false positives because of the volume of quotes used in the article. I believe I've fixed all the ones that don't come under WP:LIMITED. The first four body paragraphs are all now one.--Launchballer 14:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

• Yes, I did sift through it before marking my concerns here. I rephrased one more, but it's looking better. Good to go. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Image is NOT approved, however; it is currently at FFD, and very much will end up deleted. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Avoid specious, pop culture references

We should watch for, and avoid, specious references to pop culture. Mangione's first name is Luigi. We should simply leave it at that. There is no reason to make references to Luigi, or other game characters or real people named Luigi. There is nothing wrong, or confusing, about the name Luigi. Adding cultural or pop cultural references does not help improve the article, and should be avoided. Juneau Mike (talk) 21:09, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

This post makes it sound like the page once said something along the lines of:

This article is about Luigi Mangione. For other people named Luigi, see Luigi (given name). For the Mario (franchise) character, see Luigi.

and you removed that. Except that never happened. I'm confused about what issue you're trying to address here. Who suggested the name Luigi was confusing? Eievie (talk) 22:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

"Luigi Mangione Mugshot.jpg"

Kind reminder that Pennsylvania law explicitly states that mugshots are subject to copyright and thus anyone adding the image back will be delibaretely violating the copyright of the State of Pennsylvania

And yes, people are allowed to remove blatant copyright violations from articles so citing the upload of the photo to Commons does not excuse having it here Trade (talk) 01:21, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Trade So, is there any appropriate image to use? Lililolol (talk) 20:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

No. Nothing stopping you from contacting his attorney and asking for a freely licensed photo if you want it so badly Trade (talk) 20:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Why do you sound so defensive? Lol Lililolol (talk) 01:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Mangione"

Should the native Italian pronunciation of Mangione (Italian: [manˈdʒoːne]; mahn-jo-ne) be added to the lead section? 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 19:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It could maybe be a footnote ({{efn}}) at the bottom, but I don't think it makes sense to include it in the lead section. He's not Italian (or at least, he's not Italian in the way that Italian isn't the main language he speaks, nor a major language he's discussed in). Eievie (talk) 21:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

@Eievie

what do you mean with "efn"? L.Willms (talk) 16:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

{{efn}} is the template used to create footnotes that are not citation references. Eievie (talk) 17:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

A footnote seems satisfactory. Can I (or someone else) add it? 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 17:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done Eievie (talk) 17:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

@Bis-Serjetà?

I for my part, living in Europe, in Germany with many Italian immigrants, with my basic to middle knowledge of the Italian language, I see an Italian name and word, and pronounce it the standard Italian way. But I don't know how this name would normally be pronounced in North America, where the English language dominates. The original italian pronounciation is clear (to me), but how does this Luigi Mangione himself, his relatives, his class or workmates who live in mainly US-English speaking environment pronounce his name? How do TV and radio speaker in USA and Canada pronounce it? That would help! L.Willms (talk) 17:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The American pronunciation is /luˈiːdʒi ˌmændʒiˈoʊni/ loo-EE-jee MAN-jee-OH-nee; it is already written in the article. 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 17:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I had originally added the Italian pronunciation at Killing of Brian Thompson when this wasn’t yet an article, and other editors disagreed to include it. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Change image?

Shouldn't the image of Luigi be changed? The photo has a bad resolution and perhaps we could use the mugshot of Luigi? Bcom123 (talk) 21:05, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

@Bcom123 Agreed, particularly since Luigi is only alleged to be the person in this surveillance image. 209.171.85.155 (talk) 21:14, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

People have added the CCTV suspect pictures enough times now that I added a <!-- --> note to remind people not to. Eievie (talk) 01:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Generally, there are no freely licensed photos of him, so Lililolol (talk) 01:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Editors will have to fill out a "Non-free use rationale" if they upload (copyrighted) images of the mugshot. See this example [1]. Some1 (talk) 16:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a free drawing and one in color, if you want to use it. Like I've done before, I've made a drawing we can use until we get a free photo. A few days ago I made one of Gisèle Pelicot and it's still in use. It was on the main page (ITN) on four wikis, including en-wiki, and peaked at 151,705,371 views a couple of days ago (well, Simple English use the pencil version). Do as you please, but using a drawing has been done several times before. Cart (talk) 17:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard/Archive 49#Cartoon portraits gives reasons why people might oppose a drawing of a BLP subject: not an accurate representation of the subject, amateurish, quality issues, subjective (e.g. people might think the subject has [facial feature] while others might not), inaccurate/not illustrative, Original Research (their own interpretation of what the subject looks like), etc. Some1 (talk) 20:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Wow! Way to go to put down an honest contribution. Of course a photo is always best, but a free one is not always available. And per the discussion we had back when we had none of Kim Jong-un, all the articles we have of people before the invention of camera are subject to the same critique. But, very happy if you've managed to find a free photo for this article. Cart (talk) 21:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

File:Signed complaint mangione - arrest photo.jpg

There have been no copyright objections to the file Signed complaint mangione.pdf yet. I was just transcribing it to wikisource ( Luigi Mangione federal complaint.). In that process, I pulled all the images in the PDF. Since the PDF itself is copyright ok, would it follow that this picture from page 9 of that PDF is also ok? We could crop it just to his face, like this:

Signed complaint mangione - arrest photo.jpg

Eievie (talk) 21:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Try adding it to the infobox and see if anyone objects to it due to (any potential) copyright reasons. Some1 (talk) 21:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

@Surtsicna We're discussing the copyright status of this picture here. Can you explain your relational for removing it? Specifically, if the copyright isn't what I thought it was, what do you think its copyright status is? Eievie (talk) 22:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I was skeptical about the provenance but it seems that you folks have it under control. Surtsicna (talk) 22:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

It would be ideal if this image could be cropped and saved as a separate file on Commons. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Drawing

@IvanScrooge98: added the drawing to the right to the body of the article. I removed it saying not needed; images should not be decorative per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE. IvanScrooge98 reverted and said it's pretty relevant that a figure charged with murder and terrorism is getting portraits of various kind in his honor. If it were labelled as fan art, that's one thing, but the description of the image says The drawing was made as an illustration for a Wikipedia article, so the drawing is not to "honor" Mangione, per se.

What do people think, should this drawing remain on the article or not? Some1 (talk) 23:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh dear! I certainly did not do it as fan-art!!! It was simply made as a Wikipedia illustration when we didn't have a free photo of him. Please don't use it as something it was not intended for. Also, I've reverted IvanScrooge98's edit where he put my name on the Pelicot page. In articles, such illustrations as these should not mention the artist, it's just tacky. IRL I'm a professional artist, but here I'm only in my capacity as Wikipedian. Please respect that. Now that we have (?) photos, the drawing is just good as backup in case some copyvio should arise, or if the only free photo available is so bad, it's hard to see the subject, like in Klaus Schulze, (an image made by request from Wikipedians). Cart (talk) 23:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

My bad, I apologize for my edits then. (By the way, lovely portraits. Thanks for uploading them!) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

(There was no need to get so offended to request the image be deleted by the way. I never “insulted” anyone, if anything I liked the work.) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

IvanScrooge98, your faulty first assumption was an eye-opener. Where there is one editor thinking that, there will be others. I need to be more careful about what, and how, I draw things here. The deletion stays. Cart (talk) 11:14, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Languages

The Luigi Mangione article, after creation on December 9, has already been translated into 11 languages! ProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 03:03, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Yep, days ago when I checked the article, I was surprised 7 different languages were created...so now there's no need to even erase this article...because now you're doing a disservice to all the users! Honestly, Bryan Kohberger would've been very jealous of Luigi now! Bf0325 (talk) 07:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2024

Please remove that he is suffering from Lyme disease. It is an insignificant detail, and it also reads like a "stigma." Ggiak (talk) 03:25, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

When someone (allegedly) did a murder around the topic of healthcare, his personal experiences with health problems and treatment thereof is absolutely significant. Eievie (talk) 07:40, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we add some reference then? CNN refers to "past struggles with health issues including Lyme disease and severe brain fog" Ggiak (talk) 20:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I disabled the edit request because they are for cases where consensus supports the proposal. Plenty of people here could make the change if they believed it to be helpful so all that is required is a discussion. Johnuniq (talk) 22:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Polling

Mb2437, since you've been repeatedly copy and pasting and duplicating the polling information from Killing of Brian Thompson to this article, a biography of a living person (which has higher inclusion standards), please note that some of the polls don't explicitly ask about "Mangione", they ask about the "killer". At this point in the case, he's presumed innocent of the killing. So if these opinion polls are careful to avoid explicitly naming him, then they don't belong in this article--only polls that explicitly name him do. Also note this article is about the person (Luigi Mangione, a WP:BLP), not the event (Killing of Brian Thompson), so what respondents think of the killing itself doesn't belong in this article, especially the lead--readers can already read all of that in the Killing of Brian Thompson article, which is already linked in the lead and the body. Some1 (talk) 13:34, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

It's merely an attempt to rectify a blatant undue weight issue in this article that reads as propaganda, calling him a "folk hero" to "many" which several polls suggest is vastly untrue. MB2437 19:50, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

GiveSendGo

We cannot use GiveSendGo as a source; it is a primary source. We need to use secondary sources that refer to the GiveSendGo amount. The current article cited is from Dec 24 and says "raised more than $200,000." We will use that until someone finds a newer secondary source with an updated amount. Kingturtle = (talk) 03:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

He’s 6’2 (188cm)

He’s 6’2 (188cm) 2A02:8108:368B:2800:1DA:CF74:2335:9A94 (talk) 07:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

What's the relevance of that information? Spifferella (talk) 08:05, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

It's extremely relevant 24.12.118.104 (talk) 09:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think anyone has to prove relevancy, height is a basic detail included in {{Infobox person}}. However, you do need a citation for that information. Eievie (talk) 18:14, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

The template documentation says "If person was notable for their height, or if height is relevant." --Here2rewrite (talk) 15:02, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

He isn't 6'2 -his fake ID, his mother's description to the police, and the PA arrest sheet all have him listed as either 5'10 or 5'11. Jonathan f1 (talk) 18:56, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 December 2024

Change Luigi Mangione height from 5'10 to 5'11 based on the police report found on this link: https://archive.org/details/mangione12-9-24/mode/1up

Change in Luigi Mangione: 'is an American man' to 'is an American data engineer' Vsd11 (talk) 17:38, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done changed height.  Not done not changing lead away from American man. Ktkvtsh (talk) 18:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

NY Post?

I've never seen the Post used as a reliable source on here, except I suppose if it says this:

"Unnamed sources told the New York Post that health insurance companies have pressured prosecutors to make an example out of the suspect in order to prevent copycat incidents or for other reasons."

The terrorism charges filed against Mangione are completely consistent with how NY State law defines terrorism. Jonathan f1 (talk) 18:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we split into Trial of Luigi Mangione?

The coverage of the trial seems to be just as contentious as the killing it's adjudicating. Is there enough coverage to warrant a separate article? guninvalid (talk) 08:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

The current article is only 3,000 words, so per WP:ARTICLESIZE, there is no justificaiton for a split as it can all fit here conveniently in one place. I get that it would be notable as a standalone article, but this doesn't justify it's creation in itself, unless there is the consensus found for such a split. I'll also note that justification for a split is somewhat irrelevant it seems, if there is a bold split it's simply whether it'll hold at AfD which is possible. Ideally, with this discussion, there will no be no bold split per "Discuss first". CNC (talk) 09:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Article size isn't the only reason to split an article. WP:DUE is also something to consider, and if we're giving undue weight to the trial at the expense of balanced coverage of the subject of this biography then that is a good enough reason to split as well. See WP:CONTENTSPLIT and WP:OOS. All that being said, I don't think we're yet to the point that I'd split over this yet. But if/when trials commence and we see a big expansion I'd likely recommend it then. —Locke Cole • t • c 16:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

We don't know yet whether there will be a trial or if he'll take a plea deal. To answer your question, no, there's not enough coverage at the present time to warrant a separate article. Some1 (talk) 14:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

"Christ" image from one pizzeria

There is currently a "Christ"-like image of Mangione in the Luigi_Mangione#In_popular_culture section. Should this image be removed since Twitter/X is currently the source supporting it being on the article right now? Iljhgtn (talk) 19:52, 29 December 2024 (UTC)