Talk:Jack Posobiec

Alt-right descriptor

Almost all of the "Alt right" articles are opinion pieces and not any real affiliation, byt by political pundits. The article accuses him of doing the same thing about politicians but is treated as conspiracy

At least try to pretend these are objective sources and not weird hit pieces used by fact checkers to loosely get their points across. Most of these sources claim he's alt right because they literally just pointed at him and said so. Most of the things that are verifiably said by him are normal right wing talking points. 192.182.187.91 (talk) 23:28, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

References 3, 4 and 5 are high quality academic sources and 6 and 7 are high quality news sources. These are not opinion pieces. Cullen328 (talk) 23:34, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Plus, Pizzagate is not normal. It is deranged. Cullen328 (talk) 23:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

I tend to doubt Reagan, the Bushes or even Barry Goldwater would consider what Posobiec says to be "normal right wing talking points," though I am aware fans of Posobiec et al. want to normalize it by gaslighting for lulz. soibangla (talk) 23:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

• None of these look like opinion pieces to me; and several are high-quality academic sources indicating that this is the main thing he's notable for. It's also something discussed in the body, so it belongs in the lead. --Aquillion (talk) 17:58, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Pizzagate is not a normal right wing talking point. Criedley (talk) 09:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Possible connection to End Wokeness Twitter account; not sure if it's WP:BLP or WP:V compliant

I am a new editor and I am not super confident adding this myself. I do think, if this alleged connection to the End Wokeness twitter account can be substantiated, it's WP:Notable and ought to be added, just my two cents. LinuxNCats (talk) 13:02, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Neither of these sources are WP:RELIABLE --FMSky (talk) 13:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I understand that, I am not arguing for immediate inclusion based on one source, that's arguably opiniated and definitely original research, I am saying that we should try to either substantiate or disprove this claim, rather than ignore a reasonably popular YouTube channels claim. I'm not at all saying that his video is an acceptable source for an encylopedia. I am saying we should investigate and find an acceptable source that is WP:V to substantiate or contradict the claim.

LinuxNCats (talk) 13:34, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

https://y o u t u.be/8zZeZFs5KLQ?si=WXXpRpGxfd8DzUMb 2601:58B:1000:2D30:5056:400E:BBFF:6EB8 (talk) 00:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

That's still Ryan McBeth's video, and it's not an acceptable source even if the information in it has some weight; it just simply doesn't comply with the Wikipedia:Verifiability guidelines and we should wait for more information from other sources that do give information that can be cited here. Marshmellowasediting (talk) 03:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

As a disclosure, I do wish to note, I left a message on Marshmellowasediting's talk page as they tried to make this edit before and were reverted due to WP:V. They may be able to contribute to the discussion as well. I have also informed the reverting user. LinuxNCats (talk) 13:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

If it can be substantiated I believe it'll be notable, but until then Substack, Twitter and YouTube aren't reliable sources - I know you're not arguing this, just to provide the reason in case the user adding reads the discussion. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 19:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there is another source that most everyone else (at least from what I have seen) that has been left out, that I added along with McBeth's video. It is a Twitter thread by Alejandra Caraballo, where she claims to have found a connection between Posobiec and EndWokeness a few months before McBeth released his video.

/this following is my opinion/ In response to @Ser!, I understand that Substack and Twitter and YouTube may not be reliable sources, but I believe that the authors behind their respective posts are at least credible enough. McBeth was a First Sergeant in the US Army, has two Masters, a Bachelors degree, and has developed software used for the military. He also has worked for several intelligence, engineering, and development firms/companies, and still works for a few. Basically his whole career for at least the last couple of years involves intelligence gathering in some sort of way, so I believe his background gives some credibility to the work he has done (in relation to this topic). Meanwhile, Caraballo is an attorney and has been in a legal position for at least the last 10 years, while also possessing a Doctorate, a Masters, and a Bachelors degree. She also is a Clinical Professor at the Harvard Cyberlaw Clinic. I believe that her and McBeth's backgrounds are extensive and accomplished enough to give them enough ground to stand on.

Now yes, both of their posts are more circumstantial in nature, especially McBeth's, and Caraballo explains some of the same points too. But, at least in my eyes, Caraballo's evidence that is not mentioned by McBeth (to which I should add that he did a separate investigation and most people only know about this *because* of McBeth's video, and many still probably don't know about Caraballo's thread in March) points an even closer connection between an alt account of Posobiec and the EndWokeness account. Again, everything here is entirely circumstantial and I don't think we're going to get much more from here unless something big is found, or until Posobiec himself says he runs the account, but I think that there is definitely a connection with the evidence presented by both parties, and I think they can be reliable even though they have posted on platforms that are considered to be unreliable. However, even with everything I've pointed out, I still completely understand if this topic won't be added to his article for lack of enough sources, in-definitive evidence, or whatever it may be. I just thought it'd be worth throwing my two cents in. Marshmellowasediting (talk) 08:52, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Specifically this video cannot be cited per WP:SPS. Gotta wait for reliable sources to cover it Firestar464 (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Mmm. The allegations themselves seem, frankly, extremely credible to me, but I concur that we can't add it until it gets picked up somewhere that's not self-published. AntiDionysius (talk) 16:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Seconding the connection to End Wokeness Twitter account, not a clean source but is it not reliable proof?

Title says it all, video/article by Ryan McBeth has a ton of proof that i think matches up. 96.234.153.42 (talk) 04:21, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, considering that many other Wikipedia articles have similar sections about such allegations, I see no problem with including it here. As long as we make it clear they are theorized and not yet fully substantiated. That being said, McBeth's video is well-argued. NoveosRepublic (talk) 15:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes I agree that it certainly seems that it's at least a credible argument worth noting. 2603:7000:9600:1A2D:84BB:2FB3:EED7:B255 (talk) 00:02, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with @NoveosRepublic but the content should be backed up with a more reliable source, such as The Observer: The open-source analyst Ryan McBeth has alleged that the <End Wokeness> account is run by the alt-right activist Jack Posobiec... We definitely should not say "known for running the far-right account" as @Risith tried to do; that wording is undue weight because there are just allegations so far.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 14:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

agreed, it should be included with added context. 2A01:CB19:8ECF:BE00:BCC7:592C:C3F0:C22F (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)