Irtapil

I finally gave in and archived this mess.

• Help:Archiving (plain and simple)
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Fonts (Basmala)

"Arial" is a commercial font which is only available on a limited range of systems, so what you did is probably not as helpful as you thought it would be... AnonMoos (talk) 16:18, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: I am aware Arial is a commercial font, but it is more likely to be already installed on a reader's computer than any of the free fonts which contain the applicable characters. Most people won't want to install a new font to read a small detail on a page, free or not, and if they don't have Arial font, won't it just default to something else?

Which systems don't include Arial? Linux? That's surely a far smaller number of readers than the people who would already have a free font installed that contains characters like dotless ba. Irtapil (talk) 17:29, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Also probably many mobile systems, to start with... AnonMoos (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: this is what it looked like before i changed the font:

it seems likely not everyone was seeing that, or it would be fixed already, and the people who see the same error seem more likely to also be windows users, or have the same glitchy font that comes ahead of Arial in the queue? Irtapil (talk) 18:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

the lang-ar had a less streaky option Template:Lang-ar, but it was illegibly small, in a table you can increase font size, but in line with text that's not a winner. {{script|Arab|﷽}} ﷽‎ gives the same error. Irtapil (talk) 18:36, 7 March 2020 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Script/Arabic "Amiri (appears feathery on Windows; errors with combining shadda with kasra and in Rohingya [1])" ﷽ {{font|font=amiri|﷽}} that font looks fine in other programs, just goes weird for that character in chrome.

i'm still not sure what you mean by "not as helpful as you thought it would be" ... how helpg=ful did you think i thought it'd be? Irtapil (talk) 19:06, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

It's finicky appearance-hacking that only works for some people. and so is not a general-purpose solution to the problem. AnonMoos (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: what would your idealised solution be then? do you actually have a better idea or are you just complaining that my quick fix for a small problem isn't perfect?

As far as i gather the effect of forcing Arial font displays Arial if it is present then if it's not installed it goes back to whatever it would have displayed without that setting? so it possibly helps a lot of viewers, and has no effect for others? The "feathering" mention on the help page sounds like it is likely to be just a windows thing, and Arial comes with windows, so it likely solved it for everyone who has the problem.

The problem seemed likely to be restricted to that particular obscure character, a generalised solution (e.g. editing the template font list) would likely create WAY more problems than it solved.

i could work out the offending font - Amiri - and uninstall it from my own computer, but that solves it for only ONE user, and Amiri displays other characters fine, without streaking into the toolbars.

what proportion of users would actually not have Arial? i do wonder if some people might have Arial without the full character set? but if they don't have the Arabic characters from Arial the chances of them having a specific Arabic font are even lower.

you say Arial only works for some people, but is there any stable and extensive Arabic font they are more likely to have installed? i didn't just pick the most common font in general, i picked the font with the most extensive Arabic charachar set, out of the fonts likely to be installed on an English speakers computer. the SIL fonts would work too, but they are way less common than Arial. do you actually have a better idea? if you want to add a list of all of the fonts other than Amiri to the formatting on that one character, just go do it rather than complaining that i didn't. i even worked out which don't was causing the problem, if you want to add a solution for the tiny proportion of people who don't have serial, just go do it. but they likely weren't even getting the same glitch, so it's a bit pointless.

Irtapil (talk) 01:43, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

old {{script|Arab|﷽}} ﷽‎

new {{font|font=arial|{{lang|ar|﷽}}}} ﷽

no lang tag {{font|font=arial|﷽}}}} ﷽

no lang tag amiri {{font|font=amiri|﷽}}}} ﷽

Irtapil (talk) 02:20, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

those all display identically on my android, so, the solution does nothing, but there was also no problem to solve. if you want a solution that applies to people who do not have the problem, then that's a fairly eccentric approach...

if you actually do have a better idea i am keen to hear it. i often use arial because pages use have obscure characters, and some fonts will have these but not connect them properly, so they look completely different. i add the appropriate lang tag lang|ar or lang|ur etc. as well and as far as i know, this means that if the user is one of the 1% of internet users who do not have Arial installed or will default back to the fonts associated with that lang tag. so, if you have a better solution please do share. i could add additional fonts, but most of what i would add is already attached to those Lang tags, so that's a bit pointless. Irtapil (talk) 02:33, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

"Also probably many mobile systems, to start with... AnonMoos (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC)" well the solution does nothing, see above, but they also don't have the problem. Irtapil (talk) 02:35, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Talk page archival

I would be happy to set up page archiving for you if you would like. Let me know. Mathglot (talk) 04:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot Maybe, let me think about it. Why the offer now? Irtapil (talk) 08:14, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Because it's getting really long. If you want to set it up yourself, a good place to start is Help:Archiving (plain and simple). Good luck, Mathglot (talk) 08:29, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Nicely done. I fixed up a couple of minor problems, mainly your first archive is #1 (Archive 1) now, instead of #6. Keep an eye out so that it picks up #2 as the next one, and lmk if there are any problems. Mathglot (talk) 06:25, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

There is, however, a problem with your page that will block archiving, which is the section marked Fonts (Basmala) = near the top of the page. This has unbalanced equal signs, and because of that, is slurping all the other sections as subsections under it. To fix this, change

= Fonts (Basmala) ==

to:

== Fonts (Basmala) ==

(i.e., add an equal sign at the front). That should fix the problems on this page, and reenable archiving again. Mathglot (talk) 06:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot thanks, I think I must have done that when trying to fix some of the others that I worried would mess it up. I had it grouped by year in single = headings, I knew it would keep what was with them, but annoyingly it also kept the stuff beside them. Irtapil (talk) 19:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I actually wanted to keep that first one here. I misinterpreted what "start at" means. But it looks like you already fixed that for me? Thanks. Irtapil (talk) 19:05, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I think I'll let it get achived, it's kinda messy. Irtapil (talk) 19:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

You can group by year by placing year in H1 headings and discussion sections in H2 headings (the default for other users adding a new discussion):

Example

= 2023 = == Old discussion one == Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. == Old discussion two == Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris. Integer in mauris eu nibh euismod gravida. Duis ac tellus et risus vulputate vehicula. Donec lobortis risus a elit. Etiam tempor. Ut ullamcorper, ligula eu tempor congue, eros est euismod turpis, id tincidunt sapien risus a quam. Maecenas fermentum consequat mi. Donec fermentum. Pellentesque malesuada nulla a mi. Duis sapien sem, aliquet nec, commodo eget, consequat quis, neque. Aliquam faucibus, elit ut dictum aliquet, felis nisl adipiscing sapien, sed malesuada diam lacus eget erat. Cras mollis scelerisque nunc. Nullam arcu. Aliquam consequat. Curabitur augue lorem, dapibus quis, laoreet et, pretium ac, nisi. Aenean magna nisl, mollis quis, molestie eu, feugiat in, orci. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. = 2024 = == New discussion from this year == Fusce convallis, mauris imperdiet gravida bibendum, nisl turpis suscipit mauris, sed placerat ipsum urna sed risus. In convallis tellus a mauris. Curabitur non elit ut libero tristique sodales. Mauris a lacus. Donec mattis semper leo. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Vivamus facilisis diam at odio. Mauris dictum, nisi eget consequat elementum, lacus ligula molestie metus, non feugiat orci magna ac sem. Donec turpis. Donec vitae metus. Morbi tristique neque eu mauris. Quisque gravida ipsum non sapien. Proin turpis lacus, scelerisque vitae, elementum at, lobortis ac, quam. Aliquam dictum eleifend risus. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Etiam sit amet diam. Suspendisse odio. Suspendisse nunc. In semper bibendum libero.

But do not use unbalanced equal signs on any heading, as that will likely screw up your page, and may stop the archival bot, or make it archive weirdly. Hope this helps. Mathglot (talk) 19:26, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot that won't mess up archive? That's exactly what I had, I suppose I should have left it alone. Irtapil (talk) 19:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Hm, I will double check with the bot operator. If there's a problem with it, there's a workaround you could use involving template {{Fake header}}, but let's see what they say first. Mathglot (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Pinged you there, but for the record, this is here. Mathglot (talk) 20:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Empty H1 section

I can see that you have added an empty H1 section (= =) just above the section header for section 'Talk page archival' (diff). I'm not sure if you are going for a certain look on this page, or in the Table of Contents, or whether you are trying to affect how archiving is performed. Can you explain what your desired outcome is, because I can't tell from that edit. Mathglot (talk) 20:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot thanks for spotting that. I just forgot to remove it. I used a pair of those to bookend the stuff I archived manually, so I could just "select all" and then cut instead of trying to highlight a relevant section or archive one post at a time. Not sure if that makes sense, but doesn't matter if it doesn't, I already did it and it worked, I just forgot to clean up afterwards. Irtapil (talk) 11:10, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

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