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{{Short description|Canadian journalist &and formerpast executive director of the Wikimedia Foundation (born 1967)}}
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{{Infobox person
| name = Sue Gardner
| image = Sue Gardner 2008 (404710847434x5 cropped).jpg
| caption = Gardner in 2008
| occupation =
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1967|05|11|mf=yes}}
| birth_place = [[Barbados]]<ref name=forbes>{{cite magazine|title=US Power Women Born Abroad|url=https://www.forbes.com/pictures/ffhm45khf/sue-gardner/|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150210044131/http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ffhm45khf/sue-gardner/|url-status=dead|archive-date=February 10, 2015|magazine=[[Forbes]]|access-date=10 February 2015}}</ref>
| nationality = Canadian
| alma_mater = [[Ryerson UniversityPolytechnical Institute]]
| known_for = Former executive director, [[Wikimedia Foundation]] (2007{{ndash}}2014)
| website = {{Official website}}
}}
 
'''Sue Gardner''' (born May 11, 1967)<ref>{{cite web |url=http://suegardner.org/about/ |title=Sue Gardner's Blog |date=17 July 2010 |access-date=February 25, 2012 |archive-date=11 July 2012 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120711235527/http://suegardner.org/about/ |url-status=live }}</ref> is a Canadian [[journalist]], not-for-profit executive and business executive. She was the [[executive director]] of the [[Wikimedia Foundation]] from December 2007 until May 2014,<ref name=tretikov>{{cite web|last=Vreede|first=Jan-Bart de|title=Announcing our new Executive Director: Lila Tretikov|url=https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/05/01/wmf_announces_new_ed_lila_tretikov/|work=Wikimedia blog|date=May 2014|access-date=5 May 2014|archive-date=1 May 2014|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140501201706/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/05/01/WMF_announces_new_ED_Lila_Tretikov/|url-status=live}}</ref> and before that was the director of the [[CBC.ca|Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's]] website and online news outlets.
 
In 2012, sheGardner was ranked as the [[Forbes Magazine's List of The World's 100 Most Powerful Women|70th-most powerful woman]] in the world by ''[[Forbes]]'' magazine.<ref>[https://www.forbes.com/profile/sue-gardner/ The World's 100 Most Powerful Women, Sue Gardner] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20121212180328/http://www.forbes.com/profile/sue-gardner/ |date=2012-12-12 }}. ''Forbes''. Accessed August 23, 2012.</ref> In 2013, she joined the board of [[Global Voices Online|Global Voices]].<ref>{{cite web|url = https://globalvoices.org/2013/01/16/wikimedias-sue-gardner-joins-global-voices-board/|title = Wikimedia's Sue Gardner Joins Global Voices Board|access-date = 17 October 2014|website = Global Voices Online|last = Ivan|first = Sigal|date = 16 January 2013|archive-date = 30 January 2016|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20160130174059/https://globalvoices.org/2013/01/16/wikimedias-sue-gardner-joins-global-voices-board/|url-status = live}}</ref> In May 2015, the [[The Tor Project, Inc|Tor Project]] announced that Gardner would be assisting the project with the development of their long-term organizational strategy.<ref>{{cite web|url = https://blog.torproject.org/blog/sue-gardner-and-tor-strategy-project|title = Sue Gardner and the Tor strategy project|access-date = 11 May 2015|website = Tor Project Blogs|last = arma|archive-date = 9 May 2015|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20150509151657/https://blog.torproject.org/blog/sue-gardner-and-tor-strategy-project|url-status = live}}</ref> In 2018, she was announced as executive director of ''[[The Markup]]''.<ref name=Markup>{{cite news |first=Nellie |last=Bowles |url=https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/News-Site-to-Investigate-Big-Tech-Helped-by-13252004.php |title=News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder |newspaper=The New York Times |via=San Francisco Chronicle |date=September 23, 2018 |access-date=September 23, 2018 |archive-date=September 24, 2018 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180924050458/https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/News-Site-to-Investigate-Big-Tech-Helped-by-13252004.php |url-status=live }}</ref> Gardner left this position in May 2019.
 
In November 2023, Gardner was appointed chair of the [[Canadian Anti-Hate Network]].<ref name="gardnercahn">{{cite news |title=THE CANADIAN ANTI-HATE NETWORK HAS A NEW CHAIR |url=https://www.antihate.ca/the_canadian_anti_hate_network_has_a_new_chair |access-date=November 3, 2023 |work=Canadian Anti-Hate Network |date=December 24, 2023 |archive-date=November 11, 2023 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20231111000415/https://www.antihate.ca/the_canadian_anti_hate_network_has_a_new_chair |url-status=live }}</ref>
 
==Early life==
 
Gardner was born in [[Barbados]].<ref name=forbes/> She grew up in [[Port Hope, Ontario]], Canada, the daughter of an [[Anglican Church of Canada|Anglican]] priest and a school principal.<ref name="Globe and Mail"/> She received a degree in journalism from [[Ryerson UniversityPolytechnical Institute]].<ref name="Globe and Mail">[{{cite news |url=https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/wikipedians-do-it-for-love-really/article1652015/ |title=Wikipedians do it for love. Really]. ''|publisher=[[Globe and Mail''.]] |last=Stren |first=Olivia |date=July 26, 2010 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20100730072445/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/wikipedians-do-it-for-love-really/article1652015/ |archive-date=July 30, 2010 }}</ref>
 
==Career==
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Gardner began her career on [[Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]] (CBC) radio in 1990 on the program ''[[As It Happens]]'', and worked for more than a decade as a producer, reporter and documentary maker for [[CBC Radio One|CBC Radio]] current affairs and for [[Newsworld International]], focusing on pop culture and social issues.<ref name="lavin">From the Lavin Agency's [http://www.thelavinagency.com/speaker-sue-gardner.html profile] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140203193146/http://www.thelavinagency.com/speaker-sue-gardner.html |date=2014-02-03 }}.</ref>
 
In March 2006, she succeeded Claude Galipeau as senior director of the CBC website and Internet platform, [[CBC.ca]], building its staff from 35 to 160.<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.friends.ca/News/Friends_News/archives/articles07190602.asp | title=CBC clicks online by Tara Perkins | publisher=Toronto Star | work=Friends of Canadian Broadcasting | date=July 19, 2006 | access-date=February 7, 2016 | author=Perkins, Tara|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20061004053033/http://www.friends.ca/News/Friends_News/archives/articles07190602.asp|archive-date=October 4, 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.theteamakers.com/2006/03/02/does-cbcca-run-itself/ | title=Does CBC.ca run itself? | publisher=The Tea Makers | access-date=February 7, 2016 | author=Ouimet|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150531120909/http://www.theteamakers.com/2006/03/02/does-cbcca-run-itself|archive-date=May 31, 2015}}</ref><ref name="GnM">{{cite news|last1=Martin|first1=Cynthia|title=Sue Gardner: 'Hubris is the engine of Silicon Valley'|url=https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/management/sue-gardner-hubris-is-the-engine-of-silicon-valley/article34340030/|access-date=March 19, 2017|newspaper=Globe and Mail|date=March 19, 2017|archive-date=May 22, 2017|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170522105315/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/management/sue-gardner-hubris-is-the-engine-of-silicon-valley/article34340030/|url-status=live}}</ref>
 
===Wikimedia===
 
In May 2007, Gardner resigned from CBC, and shortly thereaftersoon began consulting for the Wikimedia Foundation as a special advisor on operations and governance.<ref name="advisor">[https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/New_Consultant_and_Special_Advisor_to_the_Wikimedia_Board_of_Trustees Wikimedia Foundation press release], June 27, 2007.</ref> In December 2007, she was hired as the foundation's executive director.<ref name="ed">[https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Sue_Gardner "Sue Gardner Hired as Executive Director"] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101227232806/http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Sue_Gardner |date=2010-12-27 }}, Wikimedia Foundation press release. December 3, 2007</ref> Over the next two years, she oversaw growth of the staff, including the addition ofadding a fundraising team, and a move of the headquarters from [[St. Petersburg, Florida|St. Petersburg]], [[Florida]], to [[San Francisco]], [[California]].
In October 2009, Gardner was named by ''[[The Huffington Post]]'' as one of ten "media game changers of the year" for the impact on new media of her work for Wikimedia.<ref name="huffpost">From the series of slides for the 10 [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/huffpost-game-changers-wh_n_337129.html?slidenumber=IYkFqRf71RU%3D#slide_image Game Changers: Who Is The Ultimate Game Changer In Media?&nbsp;– Sue Gardner] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160811195903/http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/huffpost-game-changers-wh_n_337129.html?slidenumber=IYkFqRf71RU%3D#slide_image |date=2016-08-11 }}. HuffPost. March 18, 2010</ref>
 
One of the issues that Gardner addressed while she was a Wikimedia Foundation executive director was [[gender bias on Wikipedia]]. She listed nine reasons why women don't edit Wikipedia, culled from comments by female [[Wikipedia community|Wikipedia editors]]:<ref name=Gardner110219>{{cite web |last=Gardner |first=Sue |date=19 February 2011 |title=Nine Reasons Why Women Don't Edit Wikipedia, In Their Own Words |url=http://suegardner.org/2011/02/19/nine-reasons-why-women-dont-edit-wikipedia-in-their-own-words/ |type=blog |website=suegardner.org |access-date=20 August 2017 |archive-date=18 July 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150718103642/http://suegardner.org/2011/02/19/nine-reasons-why-women-dont-edit-wikipedia-in-their-own-words/ |url-status=live }}</ref>
# A lack of [[user-friendliness]] in the [[User interface|editing interface]]
# Not having enough [[free time]]
# A lack of [[self-confidence]]
# [[Conflict avoidance|Aversion to conflict]] and an unwillingness to participate in lengthy [[Criticism of Wikipedia#Level of debate, edit wars, and harassment|edit wars]]
# Belief that their contributions are too likely to be reverted or [[Deletion of articles on Wikipedia|deleted]]
# Some find its overall atmosphere [[Misogyny|misogynistic]]
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# Fewer opportunities than other sites for social relationships and a welcoming tone
 
On March 27, 2013, Gardner announced she would be leaving her position at the Wikimedia Foundation. She stated that the Wikimedia Foundation iswas doing well now but that the Internet iswas not, and that she planned to help in that area going forward.<ref>[{{Cite web |url=http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/27/sue-gardner-departure-announcement/ |title=Please read: an announcement from Wikimedia Foundation ED Sue Gardner « Wikimedia blog] |date=27 March 2013 |access-date=2013-03-27 |archive-date=2013-03-30 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130330093918/http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/27/sue-gardner-departure-announcement/ |url-status=live }}</ref> Gardner identified the "turning point" for her decision to move on as her involvement in the 2012 [[Wikipedia blackout]] protesting the [[Stop Online Piracy Act]] and the [[Protect Intellectual Property Act]], protests that "started me thinking about the shape the Internet was taking and what role I could play in that."<ref>{{cite news |last=Chozick |first=Amy |title=Leader of Foundation Behind Wikipedia to Step Down |url=https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D07E7D7173DF93BA15750C0A9659D8B63&ref=wikipedia |work=The New York Times |date=March 28, 2013 |access-date=May 30, 2013 |archive-date=September 21, 2013 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130921084304/http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D07E7D7173DF93BA15750C0A9659D8B63&ref=wikipedia |url-status=live }}</ref>
[[File:Sue Gardner during her presentation at Wikimania 2013.jpg|thumb|Gardner in 2013 at [[Wikimania]]]]
In 2013, Gardner received an honorary doctorate from Ryerson University, her [[alma mater]].<ref>{{cite web |title=Ken Dryden, Deepa Mehta among honorary doctorate recipients at convocation |url=http://ryerson.ca/ryersontoday/data/news/2013/05/20130524_hondocs.html |work=Ryerson Today |publisher=Ryerson University |access-date=May 1, 2013 |archive-date=November 27, 2013 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131127002356/http://ryerson.ca/ryersontoday/data/news/2013/05/20130524_hondocs.html |url-status=dead }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.ryerson.ca/convocation/hondocs/ |title=Honorary Doctorates - Convocation - Ryerson University |access-date=December 3, 2014 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080202074506/http://www.ryerson.ca/convocation/hondocs/ |archive-date=February 2, 2008 }}</ref>
 
It was announced on May 1, 2014, that [[Lila Tretikov]] would be replacing Gardner, and would take over as executive director of the Wikimedia Foundation on June 1, 2014.<ref name=tretikov /><ref>[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaannounce-l/2014-May/000905.html Please welcome Lila Tretikov, the Wikimedia Foundation's new ED] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140808144017/http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaannounce-l/2014-May/000905.html |date=2014-08-08 }} [[Jan-Bart de Vreede]], [[Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees]], 1 May 2014.</ref><ref>{{cite news|title=Wikipedia's New Chief: From Soviet Union to World's Sixth-Largest Site|url=https://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/05/01/wikipedia-names-software-executive-tretikov-as-new-chief/|work=[[The Wall Street Journal]]|date=May 2014|access-date=5 May 2014|last1=Elder|first1=Jeff|archive-date=15 July 2018|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180715043240/https://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/05/01/wikipedia-names-software-executive-tretikov-as-new-chief/|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|title=Open-Source Software Specialist Selected as Executive Director of Wikipedia|last=Cohen|first=Noam|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/02/business/media/open-source-software-specialist-selected-as-executive-director-of-wikipedia.html|work=[[The New York Times]]|date=2 May 2014|access-date=5 May 2014|archive-date=15 July 2018|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180715040456/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/02/business/media/open-source-software-specialist-selected-as-executive-director-of-wikipedia.html|url-status=live}}</ref>{{overcite|date=October 2024}}
 
=== Tor and First Look ===
 
Gardner joined [[The Tor Project, Inc]] to develop a strategic plan, with support from [[First Look Media]].<ref>[https://blog.torproject.org/blog/sue-gardner-and-tor-strategy-project Sue Gardner and the Tor strategy project] - The Tor Project, 6 May 2015</ref><ref>[http://suegardner.org/2015/05/20/why-im-working-with-tor-and-first-look/ Why I'm working with Tor and First Look] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150528024956/http://suegardner.org/2015/05/20/why-im-working-with-tor-and-first-look/ |date=2015-05-28 }} - Sue Gardner's Blog, 20 May 2015</ref> The Tor Project is a [[Massachusetts]]-based research-education [[nonprofit organization]] founded by computer scientists [[Roger Dingledine]], [[Nick Mathewson]] and five others. The Tor Project is primarily responsible for maintaining software for the [[Tor (anonymity network)|Tor]] anonymity network.<ref name="torproject-corepeople">{{cite web |url=https://www.torproject.org/about/corepeople |title=Tor Project: Core People |work=Tor Project |access-date=17 July 2008 |archive-date=18 January 2011 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110118075745/http://www.torproject.org/about/corepeople |url-status=live }}</ref> [[First Look Media]] is an American news organization founded by [[Pierre Omidyar]] that was launched in October 2013 as a venue for "original, independent journalism." The organization is incorporated as a tax-exempt charitable entity.<ref name="aboutfirstlook">{{cite web|url=https://firstlook.org/about/ |title=About - First Look Media |year=2014 |website=FirstLook.org |publisher=First Look Media |access-date=25 March 2014 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140325190514/https://firstlook.org/about/ |archive-date=25 March 2014 }}</ref><ref name="rosen1">{{cite web|author=Jay Rosen|author-link=Jay Rosen|title=A First Look at NewCo's structure|date=19 December 2013|publisher=Pressthink.org|url=http://pressthink.org/2013/12/a-first-look-at-newcos-structure/|access-date=20 August 2017|archive-date=8 February 2014|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140208021741/http://pressthink.org/2013/12/a-first-look-at-newcos-structure/|url-status=live}}</ref>
 
===''The Markup''===
{{main|The Markup}}
In September 2018, Gardner co-founded ''The Markup'' with [[Julia Angwin]] and [[Jeff Larson (data journalist)|Jeff Larson]] as a continuation of their work at ''[[ProPublica]]''. With $20 million of initial funding from [[Craig Newmark]], the site would work to cover news about "Big Tech" and its impact on the public.<ref name=Markup/><ref name="NiemanLab">{{cite web |url=http://www.niemanlab.org/2018/09/watch-out-algorithms-julia-angwin-and-jeff-larson-unveil-the-markup-their-plan-for-investigating-techs-societal-impacts/ |title=Watch out, algorithms: Julia Angwin and Jeff Larson unveil The Markup, their plan for investigating tech's societal impacts |quote="Journalists in every field need to have more skills to investigate those types of decision-making that are embedded in technology." |first=Christine |last=Schmidt |date=September 24, 2018 |access-date=September 24, 2018 |work=Nieman Journalism Lab (NiemanLab) [[Nieman Foundation for Journalism]] [[Harvard University]] |location=Cambridge, Mass |archive-date=September 24, 2018 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180924214125/http://www.niemanlab.org/2018/09/watch-out-algorithms-julia-angwin-and-jeff-larson-unveil-the-markup-their-plan-for-investigating-techs-societal-impacts/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name="nytimes_Bolles_2018">{{cite news |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/23/business/media/the-markup-craig-newmark.html |title=News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder |newspaper=[[The New York Times]] |date=September 23, 2018 |access-date=September 23, 2018 |first=Nellie |last=Bowles |archive-date=September 23, 2018 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180923234645/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/23/business/media/the-markup-craig-newmark.html |url-status=live }}</ref> Initially, Gardner was set to serve as executive director, Angwin as editor-in-chief, and Larson as managing editor, with a launch date of early 2019.
 
In April 2019, Gardner fired Angwin over creative and managerial differences.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.cjr.org/analysis/julia-angwin-markup-letter-sue-gardner.php|title=The Markup ousts editor in chief Julia Angwin, prompting resignations|website=Columbia Journalism Review|language=en|access-date=2019-04-25|archive-date=2019-04-24|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190424124209/https://www.cjr.org/analysis/julia-angwin-markup-letter-sue-gardner.php|url-status=live}}</ref> Larson was named editor-in-chief. Five of seven journalists on the staff resigned. In a letter to Newmark, Angwin said Gardner wanted to turn ''The Markup'' into a “cause”"cause" rather than a “publication"publication." Angwin also said Gardner ranked reporters in job interviews according to how negativenegatively they viewed tech companies and suggested using headlines like "Facebook is a [[dumpster fire]]." Gardner responded that ''The Markup''{{'}}s mission had not changed.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/23/business/media/julia-angwin-markup.html?partner=IFTTT|title=Julia Angwin Is Out as Editor of New Tech Watchdog Site The Markup|publisher=The Markup|access-date=2019-02-01}}</ref> Gardner and Larson left ''The Markup'' the following month, and Angwin was reinstated as the website's editor-in-chief in August 2019.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Tracy |first1=Marc |title=The Markup, a Tech News Site, Reinstalls Its Fired Editor as Part of a Fresh Start |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/business/media/the-markup-julia-angwin.html |access-date=29 August 2019 |work=The New York Times |date=6 August 2019}}</ref>
 
==See also==
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[[Category:Women nonprofit executives]]
[[Category:People from Bridgetown]]
[[Category:People from NorthumberlandPort CountyHope, Ontario]]
[[Category:RyersonToronto Metropolitan University alumni]]
[[Category:Wikimedia Foundation staff members]]
[[Category:Wikipedia people]]