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{{WikiProject Rock|class=B music|importance=Low}}
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{{WikiProject Biography|living=yes|class=B|musician-priority=mid|musician-work-group=yes|listas=Coheed And Cambria}}
{{WikiProject Comics|class=B|importance=low|US=yes}}
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{{Refideas
|[https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/coheed-and-cambrias-claudio-sanchez-on-resuming-the-amory-wars-707534/ Rolling Stones interview on Vaxis]
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== External links modified ==
== Request for consensus re: archive page of older posts==
 
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I ask for a consensus: I'd like to see older posts flaming about "what is Emo/metal" etc. archived so a discussion of *all* the [[Wikipedia:Good article criteria#What is a good article?|good article]] criteria can become plain. </br> Of course those comfortable with "the GAR people" making the decision ... you're OK. ;-) [[User:Hilarleo|Hilarleo]] ([[User talk:Hilarleo|talk]])
 
I have just modified 15 external links on [[Coheed and Cambria]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/814868193|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
:Anyone is welcome to [[WP:ARCHIVE|archive]] old discussions in talk pages themselves. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 21:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151019084228/http://theamorywars.com/about-the-amory-wars/ to http://theamorywars.com/about-the-amory-wars/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080205130609/http://www.saveyourscene.com/web/view.php?table=interviews&show=4 to http://www.saveyourscene.com/web/view.php?table=interviews&show=4
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150512132055/http://www.pollstar.com/hotstar_article.aspx?ID=68365 to http://www.pollstar.com/hotstar_article.aspx?ID=68365
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081216141902/http://music.ign.com/articles/628/628899p1.html to http://music.ign.com/articles/628/628899p1.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081216141857/http://music.ign.com/articles/523/523738p1.html to http://music.ign.com/articles/523/523738p1.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071013234301/http://www.equalvision.com/artist/The_Prize_Fighter_Inferno to http://www.equalvision.com/artist/The_Prize_Fighter_Inferno
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080628091921/http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=600988 to http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=600988
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081024212039/http://blog.kerrangawards.com/2008/2008/08/best_video_winner.html to http://blog.kerrangawards.com/2008/2008/08/best_video_winner.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081025072401/http://www.livedaily.com/news/15098.html to http://www.livedaily.com/news/15098.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100527061815/http://2009.lollapalooza.com/band/coheed-and-cambria to http://2009.lollapalooza.com/band/coheed-and-cambria
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100422034719/http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188474 to http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188474
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://childrenofthefence.tumblr.com/post/8475445424/the-future
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://uk.music.ign.com/articles/119/1194288p1.html
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=165558
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071202213239/http://media.www.commonwealthtimes.com/media/storage/paper634/news/2005/04/14/Spectrum/Interview.With.Coheed.Cambrias.Joshua.Eppard-925299.shtml to http://media.www.commonwealthtimes.com/media/storage/paper634/news/2005/04/14/Spectrum/Interview.With.Coheed.Cambrias.Joshua.Eppard-925299.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081216135042/http://www.chartattack.com/features/1621/coheed-and-cambria-comic-book-geeks-get-their-revenge to http://www.chartattack.com/features/1621/coheed-and-cambria-comic-book-geeks-get-their-revenge
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071022023022/http://www.equalvision.com/artist/Coheed_and_Cambria to http://www.equalvision.com/artist/Coheed_and_Cambria
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090803230424/http://www.411mania.com/music/columns/61553/411-Mania-Music-Interview%3A-Chris-Pennie-of-Coheed-%26-Cambria.htm to http://www.411mania.com/music/columns/61553/411-Mania-Music-Interview%3A-Chris-Pennie-of-Coheed-%26-Cambria.htm
 
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
::: what does this mean: [[WP:ARCHIVE#Automated archive|Automated archive]]: "Make sure to establish consensus before" setting up MiszaBot or ClueBot III processes prior to Automated archival of the talk page. [[User:Hilarleo|Hilarleo]] ([[User talk:Hilarleo|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 22:36, 2 November 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
::::It means you need to establish consensus before setting up a MiszaBot or ClueBot III processes to automate archival of the talk page. You're free to do it manually yourself. I'll do it later when I get the chance if you want. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 22:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 
::Contributors to articles are expressly invited to join good article reviews - with the right spirit, it can become something of a collaborative effort. -[[User:Malkinann|Malkinann]] ([[User talk:Malkinann|talk]]) 21:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 
I'm actually just going to archive everything over than a few months. The previous GAN nominations are mostly irrelevant to any GAR proceedings. If anyone wants to read then they can look for themselves in the archive, separating them would disrupt the archive. You could put them in a separate archive, such as [[Talk:Coheed and Cambria/GA]] but I'll leave that to you. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 00:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 
:What I intended was an automatic archive so a ''current'' discussion of *all* the [[Wikipedia:Good article criteria#What is a good article?|good article]] criteria could become plain. But so far it's just you and me. And removing attempts to describe the plot of [[The Armory Wars]] ''automatically'' eliminates the messiest writing. <br>
:Now (to repeat) I see that in attempting to be GA ''Neutral'' the article fails tests of ''Broadness''- ie., ''range'' of viewpoint from good to bad... to moot (what is not expressed, or who can't/won't listen/care- these can be as important as their opposites). Also "notability" (influence as opposed to 'influences', etc.) and context are not well-established. C&C's [[gold record]]s should be included; but there's a problem there. It already reads like an exhaustive list of facts.<br>
:Besides critical-thinking, ''Broadness'' requires criticism. Criticism of C&C extends from the Rush thing to the C&C live act to their relationship to [[The Armory Wars|AW]] & graphic arts, the graphic novel community, writing, etc. 1 F'rinstance: How does their stage act present or extend the AW ''concept'' with references to these? </br>
:There's also a surplus of other band mentions. Coincidences are by definition not notable in themselves. The article well-defines C&C with music labels. Mention of other acts should be specifically justified. For instance the relationship to Rush's sound has to do with more than just the now-implied "high range" of the voice. It involves their instrumentation, styles, ensemble/solo approach- and certainly strikingly similar vocal timbres. [[User:Hilarleo|Hilarleo]] ([[User talk:Hilarleo|talk]]) 07:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
::I've been unable to find reliable sources for most of the things you mentioned (what there is is mostly already in the article). And of course without sources we're in the realm of original research. Could you point me in the direction of any sources or are these issues you see yourself? [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 19:38, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 
== use common sense ==
 
to know rather emo should be in the genre box know this.
a band being emo has nothing to do with emo people listening to it.emo is a real subgenre of punk that developed in the late 80's.taking this into account,coheed and cambria have had some emo songs.its made up a small percentage of their work,but is still notable.so it should be in the genre box.period.those who contest probably:
a:dont know anything about the original genre of music that is emo.
b:think a band is emo if emos listen to it,hate emos,and are pissed that a band they like is being called emo.
its only reasonability. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/64.233.158.141|64.233.158.141]] ([[User talk:64.233.158.141|talk]]) 03:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
== Cobalt and Calcium ==
I believe that Cobalt and Calcium should be listed in the links, because it is the official forum for Coheed and Cambria.
The leaders of the Cobalt are working with the members of coheed to create a Premium fansite, How much more official could you get?
 
''
http://cobaltandcalcium.com/2008/05/24/cobalt-calcium-premium-fansite/ - ''Premium fansite information can be found here, looks to be something they are connecting with the band on, why not list them?'''' --[[Special:Contributions/68.144.187.190|68.144.187.190]] ([[User talk:68.144.187.190|talk]]) 08:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 
:Coheed already have an official site, that's about as official as you can get. If we allow one fansite, others will want links too. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 
''I can see your point, but their official website links to it (when you click forum), and what are the other fansites for this band? There is only one active one (Cobalt) at the current time.'' --[[Special:Contributions/68.144.187.190|68.144.187.190]] ([[User talk:68.144.187.190|talk]]) 08:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 
:Cobalt and Calcium is a fansite. It is listed as a fansite on http://www.coheedandcambria.com/home-links.html . It does not get added. - [[User:StarIV|StarIV]] ([[User talk:StarIV|talk]]) 19:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 
''
''That maybe true, but it is the only fansite at current time..not to mention it holds a place in the heart of many Coheed fans ( I mean who hasn't heard of it?) and the band often coordinates news, information, interviews and promotion thru their site. (on countless occasions, IE: Neverender, NWFT updates, interviews with staff etc.) It could be a helpful addition to the links section for people who are looking for further information on this band. Much more helpful then the other links provided currently. I suggest that we Ignore All Rules here (this has been brought up more then once in the archived talk page with no final decision) and list it. It is a huge part of what the band does/their history and to not list it would be doing a dis-service to people looking for information Thoughts, anyone?''''--[[Special:Contributions/68.144.187.190|68.144.187.190]] ([[User talk:68.144.187.190|talk]]) 08:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 
I agree with both sides. So obviously the forum is the official forum for coheed. So why not link just the forum? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.31.17.247|98.31.17.247]] ([[User talk:98.31.17.247|talk]]) 06:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The forum is already linked clearly on the official site. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 16:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 
'':Any comments then from anybody else on this, everyone always seems to ask for it/want it linked on these talk pages and nothing ever comes of it. Can't a final decision be made considering everything that has been mentioned before on the matter? What of ignoring all rules like The Haunted Angel had mentioned before?--[[Special:Contributions/68.144.187.190|68.144.187.190]] ([[User talk:68.144.187.190|talk]]) 08:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)''
 
 
 
If it helps with the matter, I am one of the administrators from the "other" Coheed and Cambria fansite and I will make sure we don't start a link war if Cobalt was linked in the article. [[User:Sunshine748|Sunshine748]] ([[User talk:Sunshine748|talk]]) 23:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 
The forums @ cobalt and calcium are horribly run, full of trolls and assholes, and i dont think it should be linked here until they learn how to run a website fairly.
 
==Removed Prog Rock label==
I removed the [[Progressive Rock]] listing under the genres, but I kept [[New prog]]: I think the latter is a compromise between those who feel there is a prog side and those who see it simply as glorified emo. Plus, "new prog" is a subgenre of Progressive Rock; the inclusion of such a parent genre is redundant in the first place. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 04:32, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 
I also switched the "progressive rock" label to "alternative rock" in the lead. While they incorporate progressive elements, the preponderance of sources (allmusic, MTV, etc.) seem to label their primary genre as emo/indie/punk. Once again, to be fair, I think the blanket term "alternative rock" softens the blow and strikes a compromise. The "genre" section delves into their prog and emo aspects. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 04:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 
Why in the hell did you label them by what other people say they are? LABEL THEM WHAT THE BAND SAYS THEY ARE!!! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.31.17.247|98.31.17.247]] ([[User talk:98.31.17.247|talk]]) 23:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
:Wikipedia places emphasis on reliable secondary sources, not primary sources. Certainly, what the band thinks they are is a notable inclusion -- if a reliable source of such an admission can be found (interview, website, etc). &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 01:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
:I opted to change "New prog" back to regular "progressive rock", as the bulk of the sources don't include such a term. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 05:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 
What is your issue? Do you just have something against Coheed? Seriously, this argument was settled last year and it was decided to remove the emo label because there was really only one source that seemed to outright call them emo, not to mention the fans, band, and sound of the music all argue against the emo label. Really the only album to ever be called emo was The Second Stage Turbine Blade, so to continue to insist on the label being added is ignorant. If the label no longer fits (I don't think it ever did) then it doesn't belong being there. I don't know what made you feel like you had to start this war again when a reasonable agreement was found a while ago; maybe you just needed to feel like a big man and throw your weight around, or maybe you just don't like the band and wanted to start shit. Whatever it is, it's pretty freakin ignorant and you need to leave their page alone and change it back.<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:68.49.219.34|68.49.219.34]] ([[User talk:68.49.219.34|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/68.49.219.34|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:Unfortunately, reading the bulk of the sources suggests the contrary: almost all sources label them as "emo" or an "emo-prog" fusion. It's not a matter of having "something against" a band (especially when I only consider a few of their songs "emo"); it's a matter of compromising by including all major genres described by the sources. Emo, along with prog, is one such genre. Feel free to find more sources to shore up the prog/alternative genre labels, but that wouldn't justify the removal of the "emo" label. Our policy, simply put, is [[WP:V|verifiability, not truth]]. Also, even if the genre is "out of date", it doesn't change the fact that they have been associated with that genre. Just like [[Rush (band)|Rush]], [[The Who]], [[Aerosmith]], [[Genesis]], and other bands with drastically changing styles are not known only by their most recent style. An encyclopedia article covers the history as a whole, not the most recent incarnation of the topic. The fact of the matter is that professional critics and columns have considered them emo, and even if another camp disagrees with that statement, it doesn't justify removal from the box. Instead, such debate should be further detailed in the "genre" section. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 00:06, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 
That is a completely retarded policy. Last I checked, encyclopedias were supposed to provide truthful information, and considering Wikipedia is supposed to be an online encyclopedia, well, I don't think I need to spell it out. Then again, maybe that's why most professors consider this site to be a joke. As someone else pointed out, there is only one source that blatantly calls the band emo, while the band, fans, and other sources refer to them as prog. If you actually listen to their music you should be able to clearly tell that they sound nothing like emo bands. I don't know why you had to bring this fight back up again; as The Haunted Angel posted below, the emo tag was removed from the box because it was disputed so heavily and the infobox didn't give enough information to defend it. That sounds like a reasonable argument; the genre was left in the blurb on the page where it could be fleshed out. That seemed to appease everyone involved, and I don't understand why you needed to stroke your e-peen by bringing the argument back up again. Just leave well enough alone and stop being a child. [[Special:Contributions/68.49.219.34|68.49.219.34]] ([[User talk:68.49.219.34|talk]]) 00:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)FlameLordPhoenix
:The following [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] cite the band as having emo aspects: [http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/1064], [http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1486023/20040329/coheed_cambria.jhtml], [http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/04/26/coheed-and-cambrias-fourth-album-to-be-as-nonsensical-as-first-three/], [http://www.phixclothing.com/coheed-cambria-m-88.html?cp=7], [http://chicago.decider.com/events/coheed-and-cambria,16148/], [http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=205607], [http://www.scaruffi.com/vol7/coheed.html], and so on. The consensus among reliable sources is that they contain elements of ''both'' emo and prog (an "emo-prog fusion"); if you feel this page's "genre" section does not do a good enough job of describing the genre debate from ''all sides'', then feel free to expand it. But the infobox must include the most relevant genres according to [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] (in this case, both prog ''and'' emo). I encourage you to find additional [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] of large groups of fans or the band itself denying the emo genre &mdash; if you feel a further expansion of the genre section is necessary. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 00:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 
I find it amusing that you all prefer secondary sources over primary sources, when any reporting course I've ever taken says primary sources are more important. Also, containing elements of something is not enough to be considered that. I'm part Italian, but people don't identify me as an Italian-American because I also have other heritages. If Coheed only contains elements of emo, and are not blatantly emo, then how can you label them as an emo band? You can't. I find it amusing that you Wiki types feel it necessary to continue brining this argument up. You must have a penchant for pain, or you must like seeing people get pissed off, because I can't think of any other reason to continuously raise the same argument over one page out of the millions on this site. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.49.219.34|68.49.219.34]] ([[User talk:68.49.219.34|talk]]) 00:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:By that argument, how can we label the as progressive? We aren't calling them an "emo band"; we're saying that "emo" is one of their genres/styles, as outlined by reliable secondary sources. We compromise by including ''all major elements of style'' according to sources: in this case, prog and emo. A [[term paper|high school report]] (which encourages original thought) is different from an [[encyclopedia]] (which discourages original thought; encyclopedias [[Wikipedia:No original research#Primary, secondary and tertiary sources|combine both primary and secondary sources]] to form a [[tertiary source]], focusing on secondary sources to avoid [[WP:OR|excessive original research]] and [[WP:POV|undue weight]].
:Also, I was not involved in the argument several months before, so I was not apart of that consensus. I am merely being [[WP:BOLD|bold]], and editors with relevant issues rooted in [[WP:POLICY|policies and guidelines]] are more than welcome to initiate the [[Wikipedia:Bold, revert, discuss|bold, revert, and discuss]] cycle. The more time one spends working on an encyclopedia, the more time one begins to understand how and why things must work the way they do. It's difficult to explain unless you've been involved in the project for a long time.
:PS: the reason why some professors dislike Wikipedia is for exactly the opposite reason you mention: passers-by incorporating their own points of view without including reliable secondary sources. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 00:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 
Oh really? Well can you provide me with a SOURCE that say that's why professors dislike Wikipedia, since you seem to be such a fan of sources? Because I've had professors outright tell me they think this site is a joke, but I know that means nothing to you since that's *gasp* a primary source. So the policy around here is that, at any time, an editor can raise shit again about any issue, even if a reasonable agreement has been reached at some point and time? Sounds like a pretty piss-poor way to run a business (or website, in this case). Also, I love how you don't actually refute the claim that you have something against the band, which suggests that you do (or at least that you don't like them), which then suggests bias. Someone with bias should not be given authority over that which they are biased towards.
:I've already said ''several times'' at various points that I don't have something against the band. Also, check out our [[Criticism of Wikipedia]] article. And, yes, [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus changes over time]], which often leads to discussions being revisited via [[Wikipedia:Bold, revert, discuss]]. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 01:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 
You know what dude, it's cool. I'm not arguing with you anymore. I've been informed that Coheed's page has assigned keepers who will eventually take care of this matter. Enjoy flaunting your power while you can. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.49.219.34|68.49.219.34]] ([[User talk:68.49.219.34|talk]]) 01:35, 10 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Pages do not have assigned keepers, though any of the ''volunteer'' users who often edit this page are more than welcome to help build consensus rooted within Wikipedia policy. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 01:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 
As I said, I'm not arguing with you anymore. I've been informed by a reliable source who I will not disclose for the sake of my source that you are in the wrong, and it will be reversed in due time. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.49.219.34|68.49.219.34]] ([[User talk:68.49.219.34|talk]]) 01:44, 10 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
===Section break===
As we wait for the remaining participants in this discussion to arrive, I'll start a new subheader to keep the next phase of the inevitable discussion neat. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 02:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 
You know, I was thinking about your arguments, and I found several holes in them that I was going to rip in to, but in the end I decided that would be pointless. Continued arguing isn't going to solve anything, so there's no point in me adding fuel to the fire. So instead, I put those thoughts aside and started thinking of reasonable compromises, and I came up with this: put the emo tag in the infobox, but put (disputed) next to it. That way people coming to the page will see that "oh, some people consider them emo and some don't, perhaps the Genre section will clarify", or something to that effect anyway. Personally, I'd rather see the emo tag completely removed, but obviously that could lead to a long term battle. I think adding the disputed tag is a more than reasonable compromise that will allow you to uphold your end of things, but it will give us fans some satisfaction because people will know that not everyone considers the band emo. Anyway, that's my proposal. [[Special:Contributions/68.49.219.34|68.49.219.34]] ([[User talk:68.49.219.34|talk]]) 13:58, 11 April 2009 (UTC)FlameLordPhoenix
:I'm willing to take it a step further. "Hardcore punk" and "emo" both fall under "[[Alternative rock]]", so there is no need to include a subgenre such as "Emo" in the infobox. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 00:24, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
:The only significant hole in my argument is that newcomers or readers unfamiliar with Wikipedia policy would constantly remove the tag despite the sources. Either way, I've restructured the lead and the infobox to compensate, as the only other option would be to keep the "Emo" tag. &mdash; '''[[User:Deckiller|Deckill]][[User talk:Deckiller|er]]''' 00:34, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 
Actually there were several. The two biggest being 1) you claim consensus changes over time; however, in the desicion to re-instate the emo tag, you were the only one who felt it necessary. You made the call on your own, at least as far as I can tell. Consensus, by definition, is majority of opinion. So consensus had not changed, at least judging by the reaction on the talk page. 2) You were arguing how the encyclopedia was different from a high school paper (by the way, for reference sake, I'm about to start my graduate degree) because high school papers encourage original thought while encyclopedias don't. While high school (and even college papers) encourage original thought and opinion, they seek original thought and opinion that can be backed up by truth; by hard, consistent facts. Wikipedia, then, is an unreliable source because, as you said, it does not strive for truth, but instead verifiability. If you want your students to back something up with truth then, obviously, you would not want them using a website that does not strive for truth as a source. So it's not the fact that anyone can edit it; it's irrelevant at that point, because, as you said, the truth itself is not the main goal. And as I said, I've had professors call it a joke. I'm not saying that's the consensus among professors, I'm just saying I've heard it said. Anyway, we can continuously argue over this, or we can drop it. You've said what you've had to say, and I've said what I had to say. We've come to a conclusion, at the very least, and for that I'm happy. [[User:Flamelordphoenix|Flamelordphoenix]] ([[User talk:Flamelordphoenix|talk]]) 03:50, 12 April 2009 (UTC)FlameLordPhoenix
 
==Genre, Again==
 
I propose removing the "emo" and "post-hardcore" tags from the genre box, at the very least. We had seemed to reach a reasonable agreement on this some time ago, with DeckKiller deciding that "alternative rock" was a broad enough genre tag. The "emo" tag especially incites debate every time someone decides to try and raise this as an issue (which seems to happen once or twice every year), and every time the argument drags on with the tag eventually being removed. Some people may think the band are emo, but many don't; as DeckKiller said "alternative rock" can encompass "emo", and would be a fair compromise for the genre box. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.22.125.73|70.22.125.73]] ([[User talk:70.22.125.73|talk]]) 13:21, 19 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
:I mentioned to the user who changed it that he's perhaps should have brought up the genre changes on his talk page [[User_talk:166.137.13.82#Coheed and Cambria‎|here]]. Maybe best to revert it all until a consensus is reached. I've seen discussions on emo and prog but "emo-prog" is a new one on me. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 13:53, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 
 
So it's fine that I reverted the genre box back to simply "progressive rock" and "alternative rock" for the time being? [[Special:Contributions/70.22.125.73|70.22.125.73]] ([[User talk:70.22.125.73|talk]]) 13:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 
:Just an idea, up to everyone involved to decide whether it's "fine" or not.
:(Also, to all the users reverting, despite what you may have heard, genre changes are [[WP:NOTVAND|not vandalism]], and describing them as such is counter productive and not an excuse to continue edit warring.) [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 14:01, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 
I think the same user is back again; all of the albums introduce the band as "emo-prog", despite my editing the term out previously. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/198.200.181.208|198.200.181.208]] ([[User talk:198.200.181.208|talk]]) 22:29, 19 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==Added Label==
 
Added the Roadrunner Records label under the list of labels for the band. Roadrunner is distributing their albums internationally. http://www.roadrunnerrecords.co.uk/artist/Coheed+And+Cambria [[Special:Contributions/70.22.125.73|70.22.125.73]] ([[User talk:70.22.125.73|talk]]) 13:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 
==Shawna Wirkus?==
In March 1995, Claudio Sanchez and Travis Stever's band Toxic Parents split and, together with Shawna Wirkus, formed the band Beautiful Loser. The band featured Stever on vocals and guitar, Sanchez on guitar, Kelley on drums and Jon Carleo on bass. The group was short-lived, breaking up by June 1995 after an argument over gas money.[5] Stever left the band, and the resulting trio was named Shabütie,[6] a word taken from African tribe chants that means "naked prey" in the film The Naked Prey.
 
Who is Shawna Wirkus? Is this just some super-fan trying to get there name on the page? Please site a source. I am deleting until I get a source.<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:76.238.174.115|76.238.174.115]] ([[User talk:76.238.174.115|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/76.238.174.115|contribs]]) 03:24, 24 May 2010</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
 
:I'm guessing vandalism. Was changed by an IP back in Feb, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coheed_and_Cambria&action=historysubmit&diff=343289417&oldid=343078971 here]. I have reverted now and restored the original text. Cheers for pointing this out. [[User:Rehevkor|Rehevkor]] <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 04:01, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 
== Cambria & Taylor; this is a valid talk point. ==
 
A long time ago, I posted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Coheed_and_Cambria&diff=prev&oldid=215452660 this] and I just noticed it was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Coheed_and_Cambria&diff=249277106&oldid=249276973 removed] per [[WP:TALK]].
 
I was asking about a company called Cambria & Taylor, with a stylized logo that was very similar to that of Coheed & Cambria. It was a valid article discussion, because if there is some connection between the two, perhaps one inspired the other's name, it should probably be mentioned here. So again I ask, does anybody know anything at all about a company that makes soap for hotels called Cambria & Taylor?--[[User:Johnny Jupiter|Johnny Jupiter]] ([[User talk:Johnny Jupiter|talk]]) 18:52, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 
:I suspect it's entirely coincidental. If you can't provide anything besides anecdotal observations (i.e. sources) there's not much more to say. Per [[WP:TALK]] talk pages are for discussing the article only. Perhaps you'd like to find a forum to discuss it. '''Rehevkor''' <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 19:21, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 
::I do expect that it most likely is a coincidence, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't be brought up on the talk page. Of course I don't have sources. If I did, I could have just added it to the article myself. I asked about it on the talk page just in case someone does have a source confirming or denying it. It may be a trivial insignificant coincidence, but it's still a proposed addition to the article, and therefore a perfectly acceptable talk page discussion. Besides, the logo DID look a lot like the way the band stylizes their name. If someone does know something about this company (I tried looking them up but couldn't find anything), the uncanny similarity alone might be worth a mention, even if it is a coincidence.--[[User:Johnny Jupiter|Johnny Jupiter]] ([[User talk:Johnny Jupiter|talk]]) 07:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 
Without reliable sources explaining a direct and notable connection there's not much to discuss and nothing to add to the article. The similarities between soap at a motel and a band logo is not something that is frequently discussed by the music press. '''Rehevkor''' <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 14:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 
== coheedandcambrialive.com ==
 
*http://www.coheedandcambrialive.com
 
Someone spammed this site just now, I was about to add it to the external links section on the basis it was an official site. But is it? No mention on the official website that I can see, no copyright notice. The [http://www.coheedandcambrialive.com/index.php?main_page=conditions&zenid=mg6cc4ihqe0cn6oqb0g8l4nr81 Conditions of Use] is suspiciously blank, as is the Privacy Notice. '''Rehevkor''' <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 22:38, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 
== The genres? ==
 
How is it we can label Madonna a rock artist, and Muse a progressive metal (of which there's no metal at all in their music), and we can label some individual Coheed and Cambria songs "progressive metal/alternative metal", but we can't have either in the genres section of the band's wiki page? Progressive rock hardly fits, same with alternative rock, seeing as for the most part Coheed and Cambria has far more of a metal influence if anything. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.136.243.225|24.136.243.225]] ([[User talk:24.136.243.225|talk]]) 21:47, 26 June 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
== Moved from article ==
 
refs etc that were hidden in the article. moving here until they cane actually be used (hidden in source) <!--<ref name ="RollingStone">{{cite news|url=http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/04/26/coheed-and-cambrias-fourth-album-to-be-as-nonsensical-as-first-three/|title=Coheed and Cambria’s Fourth Album to Be as Nonsensical as First Three|last=Shinefield|first=Mordechai|date=July 26, 2007|work=ROCK & ROLL DAILY|publisher=RollingStone.com|accessdate=2008-11-02}}</ref>
 
<ref name=absolute>{{cite web | url=http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=268811| title=Coheed and Cambria – No World For Tomorrow – Album Review| work=Absolute Punk | accessdate=January 31, 2008 }}</ref>
 
<ref name=absolute2>{{cite web | url=http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=98680| title=Coheed and Cambria – Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV Vol. 1: FFTTEOM| work=Absolute Punk | accessdate=January 31, 2008 }}</ref>
 
<ref name=rs>{{cite web |url=http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/coheedandcambria| title=coheed and cambria – bio| work=Rolling Stone | accessdate=February 26, 2008 }}</ref>
 
<ref name=ultimateguitar>{{cite web |url=http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/press_releases/coheed_and_cambria_release_video_for_new_single_feathers.html | title=coheed and cambria – article| work=Ultimate Guitar | accessdate=February 26, 2008 }}</ref>
 
The record also invited many comparisons to Canadian [[progressive rock]] group [[Rush (band)|Rush]] due to Sanchez's characteristically high vocals and the distinctly technical nature of the music in comparison to their peers in the [[post-hardcore]] scene.<ref name="RushEmo">{{cite web|date=2004-03-29|last=John|first =Tracey|url=http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1486023/20040329/coheed_cambria.jhtml|title=Coheed And Cambria, The 'Emo Rush,' Bring Prog-Rock To The Mosh Pit|work=MTV|quote=often been described as an "emo Rush" due to its elaborate concept albums [..] singer/guitarist Claudio Sanchez's high-pitched vocals |accessdate=2008-11-02}}</ref> The album brought the band underground notoriety.-->
 
'''Rehevkor''' <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 10:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 
== Mic's departure ==
 
Just in case everyone hadn't heard, Mic is done with Coheed once and for all.
http://childrenofthefence.tumblr.com/post/8475445424/the-future
Should we add a new section to the page about this? ~cal <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.180.180.217|24.180.180.217]] ([[User talk:24.180.180.217|talk]]) 19:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
:I don't see how it warrants a new section - histories in band articles are usually divided by albums. Other than the robbery (which is not directly related the the band) the split is amicable and not really a major event in the history of the band. Also, any got any sources other than tumblr? No way to know who is really behind these accounts, and it's a damn weird way to make such an announcement. '''Яehevkor''' <big>[[User talk:Rehevkor|<FONT COLOR="black">✉</FONT>]]</big> 19:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 
They posted a link to it on their official facebook fanpage~cal <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.180.180.217|24.180.180.217]] ([[User talk:24.180.180.217|talk]]) 20:44, 4 August 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
== genre debate ==
 
well seeing as this band was one of a group in the emo scene movement in the mid 2000's i think they need credit in the article that says that, specially since the genre didnt exist until after 2000 when they, as well as others, made it a popular style of music. also "post-hardcore" is another term for the emo genre. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.178.123.113|72.178.123.113]] ([[User talk:72.178.123.113|talk]]) 21:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
:Any claims such these require [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] that can be [[WP:V|verified]] supporting them. Also, no, [[post-hardcore]] and [[emo]] are not the same. – '''''[[User:Richard BB|<font color="#8000FF">Richard</font>]] [[User talk:Richard BB|<font color="#8000FF">BB</font>]]''''' 21:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 
== External links modified ==
 
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
 
{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[Coheed and Cambria]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=686469938 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20111118121042/http://www.coheedandcambria.com:80/note-from-josh.html to http://www.coheedandcambria.com/note-from-josh.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131231001828/http://www.anotherascendinglark.com/2012/10/album-review-coheed-and-cambria.html to http://www.anotherascendinglark.com/2012/10/album-review-coheed-and-cambria.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081216141731/http://www.musictowers.com:80/news/features/metal-hammer-golden-gods-awards-2006/?page=3 to http://www.musictowers.com/news/features/metal-hammer-golden-gods-awards-2006/?page=3
 
Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 11:41, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
 
== The band member timeline appears to be broken. ==
{{sourcecheck|checked=true}}
 
There is a big issue on this article's timeline of band members where the dividing lines appear to have gone rogue. I am not personally sure how to fix this, but is there someone that can handle that?
Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner]]:Online</sub></small> 08:42, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
[[User:NightmareSnake|NightmareSnake]] ([[User talk:NightmareSnake|talk]]) 18:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
: Fixed. An ip made an unexplained change a few days ago. Timeline syntax is very sensitive and this happens when things aren't quite right. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 18:45, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
:: I see this has happened before, and I was the one to report it at that time as well. The timeline is broken again. [[User:NightmareSnake|NightmareSnake]] ([[User talk:NightmareSnake|talk]]) 21:35, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
::: The article was reverted to a state when the table was working, but it didn't seem to update the table image. Editing and submitting the article without any changes seems to have fixed it. [[User:Kheto|Kheto]] ([[User talk:Kheto|talk]]) 11:56, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
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