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== IPAPopulation pronunciationcompletely wrong ==
 
Why not use proper census data and revert back to 2021. The population is woefully underestimated. [[Special:Contributions/1.157.21.148|1.157.21.148]] ([[User talk:1.157.21.148|talk]]) 12:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
As a native Australian and linguist, the IPA pronunciation should be changed to /ˈkænbrʌ/, or /ˈkænbrɐ/, depending on preference. It is unmistakeably a two-syllable pronunciation. No Australian ever pronounces it in the way displayed on the page. Thanks! [[User:Sl0wr0lla|Sl0wr0lla]] ([[User talk:Sl0wr0lla|talk]]) 10:51, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 
== Orphaned page about an artist from Canberra ==
Alternatively, /ˈkænbra/ (I'm not sure on low mid vowel preferences on Wikipedia). [[User:Sl0wr0lla|Sl0wr0lla]] ([[User talk:Sl0wr0lla|talk]]) 10:54, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 
Going through the random orphaned pages link, I found an [[Chris Walrus Dalzell|article]] about an artist from Canberra. I've also noticed that several articles about towns or cities often have sections about notable people whom were born or lived there. The article about Canberra doesn't, and even if it did, I would not be able to edit it seen as it is a semi-protected page and I have not made enough edits to contribute to semi-protected pages yet. Could someone fix this? [[User:Bradicalguy|Bradicalguy]] ([[User talk:Bradicalguy|talk]]) 03:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
:The slashes (/.../) in IPA denote standard phonemes. What you suggest are dialectal variants, and those are properly held between square brackets ([...]). If you believe that those pronunciations are accurate, by all means put them after the "standard" pronunciation — between ''square brackets''. This all arises from a distinction between ''phonology'' and ''phonetics'', one that only language nerds like me ever seem to make (I have a degree in this stuff). Also, other users might demand a reference...
:This article does not have a list of notable people and it would be deleted if anybody tried to create it in order to preserve its FA rating. Even it existed, thousands of people would qualify ahead of Chris Walrus Dalzell. The Dalzell article was lucky to survive a deletion nomination.--[[User:Grahamec|Grahame]] ([[User talk:Grahamec|talk]]) 07:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 
== Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2024 ==
:Hiding somewhere in the archived Talks is a long discussion about how "Canberra" is supposed to be pronounced. I was the one who started it after noticing that somebody had put a peculiar pronunciation in the article with stress on the second syllable. [[User:Kelisi|Kelisi]] ([[User talk:Kelisi|talk]]) 19:51, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
:: I find these IPA codes awful hard to navigate, and am only just now figuring that the pronounce option needs to be cooded, but then, I don't like this camberra ogg file, sounds like cairnbra (Cairns) not cans, but, the whooo, I like canbra, and I use the example, Canberra, not Milperra, but Milperra, not Canberra. [[User:Dave Rave|Dave Rave]] ([[User talk:Dave Rave|talk]]) 08:25, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 
There seems little interest in addressing these problems. At the moment we have
/ˈkænbərə/ : To most readers, this is another language, and of little value. May as well render it in Arabic.
Sound file: Sounds like an American, as a Canberran I would redo it, but I have an unlovely droney voice :)
KAN-bə-rə: And this one, it's hard to interpret this as anything but three syllables, which is definitely wrong.
It's pronounced Canbra, and these entries should reflect that. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Local Potentate|Local Potentate]] ([[User talk:Local Potentate#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Local Potentate|contribs]]) 09:21, 29 March 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
@Sl0wr0lla: I´m an Australian, and I pronounce it with three syllables. I don´t claim to be a local, though: I´m from Melbourne. [[User:SRamzy|SRamzy]] ([[User talk:SRamzy|talk]]) 10:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 
== Including Aboriginal Country Name ==
 
In Aotearoa/New Zealand, the local iwi (or tribe) is listed for most, if not all towns and cities. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauranga.
 
I think that we should include the Indigenous Country/Nation that Canberra resides in the info box on the right side. I'd like to get this started on all major Aus city pages.
 
Is there any objection to including this information in the infographic box for this page?
It could be described in a variety of ways, eg. Local Indigenous nation, Indigenous Australian group, First Nation Country, and happy to take suggestions.
Edit: Forgot to add the actual one I was thinking: Traditional Custodians
 
 
 
I would be linking: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngunnawal]] , [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngambri]]
 
 
https://www.act.gov.au/ngunnawal-country
https://www.nma.gov.au/learn/encounters-education/community-stories/canberra
 
== Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2022 ==
 
{{edit semi-protected|Canberra|answered=yes}}
A sparse gathering of frock-coated, stiffcollared politicians, their wives, a few soldiers
Change the Population of Canberra from 453,559 to 467,000. [[User:Vecera 999|Vecera 999]] ([[User talk:Vecera 999|talk]]) 23:38, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
and local farmers watched as Lady Denman,
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> - <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">[[User:FlightTime|<span style="color:#800000">'''FlightTime'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:FlightTime|<span style="color:#1C0978">'''open channel'''</span>]])</small></span> 23:38, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
wife of Australia's Governor-General, took a
 
card from a small gold case and announced: 'I
== Pronunciation ==
name the capital city of Australia "Canberra".'
 
Although a secret up to this minute, the chosen
G'day, I'm curious as to the pronunciation of Canberra. It my sense, and personal pronunciation, that Can-BER-RA should be changed to Can-BRUH. However, I am just one person and not representative of Australia as a whole. Not to mention that I'm a Queenslander, the Blues would riot if they found out I was editing this page with a banana bender pronunciation. [[User:IronBattalion|IronBattalion]] ([[User talk:IronBattalion|talk]]) 01:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC).
name was scarcely a surprise. 'Canberry' had
: You're stressing the word on the last syllable, which is wrong. It ought to be CAN-bruh, not can-BRUH. -- [[User:JackofOz|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span>]] [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span>]] 01:56, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
been the accepted name of the area as far
:: Jack the Ozzie is correct. Mind you, if we want to say it very slowly the missing syllable shows itself: CAN-buh-ruh. But at normal speaking speed, two syllables. [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 02:09, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
back as 1825 when John Joshua Moore, the
::Jack and McKay are correct. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 02:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
first white settler in the district, had grazed
::Sorry, I was more showing the change in the two forms rather than syllable stress, but I do agree with you. Though as Mckay has pointed out, there are certain scenarios where the original is used. In the article should we showcase both or use the most common one for pronunciation. Personally I'm leaning towards the latter. [[User:IronBattalion|IronBattalion]] ([[User talk:IronBattalion|talk]]) 02:58, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
sheep there. It had also been called 'Kamberra'.
:I agree. I have been to Canberra many times and have only every heard can-bruh there and everywhere else in Australia, the current pronunciation is completely wrong. I will change it. [[User:Just your average wikipedian|Just your average wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Just your average wikipedian|talk]]) 03:44, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Said to be derived from the Aboriginal word
 
for 'meeting place', it is also believed to have
The three syllable version shouldn't be there, but if it is removed, someone will just reinsert immediately, despite how many times it's been pointed out that it's a two syllable word. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Local Potentate|Local Potentate]] ([[User talk:Local Potentate#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Local Potentate|contribs]]) 07:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)</small>
been the name of an Aboriginal tribe inhabiting
 
the area when Europeans first arrived.
Would anyone be totally opposed to a suggestion that '''some''' speakers use a pronunciation that somehow almost replaces the "n" with an "m", making it lean towards but not being exactly Cam-bruh? [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 09:47, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Also on the dais at this memorable foundation
 
ceremony were Lord Denman, the Prime
User:Nardog has been repeatedly changing the pronunciation to one that is incorrect, want to assume good faith but that's getting increasingly difficult. You refuse to make any comments in the talk section explaining your reasoning and any depth. In the links you made in your edit, one says "Local pronunciations are of particular interest" yet you continually remove the local pronunciation. To reach a compromise I've added the incorrect pronunciation after the real one as a "rare" alternative. Like I said, I would like to assume good faith and that this is all a big misunderstanding, but if you continue to make this change whilst being complete silent in the talk section I really can't see any other explanation than you deliberately trying to mislead people from outside Australia. If you don't respond to this and once again alter the pronunciation I don't see any other solution than to report your vandalism. However I hope this can be solved without that happening. [[User:Just your average wikipedian|Just your average wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Just your average wikipedian|talk]]) 10:17, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Minister, Andrew Fisher, and the Minister for
:Sorry, I didn't realize you had already made a section here. I appreciate you initiating it and I apologize for not participating in it sooner. I don't think the use of /ʌ/ and ''uh'' would be defensible in any way. I don't have access to the sixth edition of ''Macquarie'' right now, but the first edition [https://archive.org/details/macquariediction0000unse/page/287/mode/1up has it] "/ˈkænbərə, ˈkænbrə/" (as does [https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195517965.001.0001/m-en_au-msdict-00001-0008196 ''Australian Oxford Dictionary'']) and I don't know of any dictionary that regards /ʌ/ as anything other than a [[checked vowel]], i.e. always followed by a consonant. I highly doubt the first notation is supported by the source cited.
Home Affairs, King O'Malley, a bearded exreal estate salesman from Kansas. The date was
:[[WP:DIAPHONEMIC]] is pretty clear on the use of /ər/. [[Help:IPA/English]], which {{tl|IPAc-en}} links the notation to, defines /ər/ as ''hist'''or'''y'', even though if you look it up on virtually any dictionary, the vowel there is either indicated to be optional (as in /ˈhɪst(ə)ri/) or not included at all (/ˈhɪstri/), meaning so long as the conventions of [[Help:IPA/English]] are used (as recommended by [[MOS:PRON]]), the situation in which a pronunciation with /r/ derived from /ər/ followed by a weak vowel exists is always represented as /ər/, because the elision of the vowel is predictable (as explained in note 32). There are hundreds of articles, such as [[Hyderabad]], [[Edinburgh]], [[David Attenborough]], [[Apollo]], [[Pittsburgh]], [[Bat]], [[Mercury (element)]], [[Niagara Falls]], [[Genus]], [[Ankara]], currently using the sequence {{IPAc-en|ər|ə}}. In ALL of these cases, without exception, an alternative pronunciation without /ə/ exists. So if we represented ''Canberra'' as "{{IPAc-en|ˈ|k|æ|n|b|r|ə}} or {{IPAc-en|ˈ|k|æ|n|b|ər|ə}}", it wouldn't make sense if we also didn't change all the hundreds of instances of {{IPAc-en|ər|ə}} to "{{IPAc-en|r|ə}} or {{IPAc-en|ər|ə}}". And that's just {{IPAc-en|ər|ə}}. Similar variations are expected in virtually any word, and that's where the whole idea behind [[Help:IPA/English]] lies, as [[WP:DIAPHONEMIC]] summarizes: "there is little point in transcribing ''Oxford'' as {{!xt|{{IPA|[ˈɒksfərd]}}, {{IPA|[ˈɒksfəd]}}, {{IPA|[ˈɑːksfərd]}}, {{IPA|[ˈɑːksfəd]}}, {{IPA|[ˈɔːksfərd]}}, or {{IPA|[ˈɔːksfəd]}}, depending on accent}}, and this would add a considerable amount of clutter to the article."
12 March 1913.
:{{IPAc-en|ˈ|k|æ|n|b|ər|ə}} is also the stable version from [[Special:Diff/841491140|May 2018]]. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 01:55, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
About them lay the empty Monaro plains,
::But it's not how it's pronounced by most Australians today. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 06:02, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
limestone sheep country, stock tracks, and a
:::Again, "{{IPAc-en|ˈ|k|æ|n|b|ər|ə}}" already means "/ˈkænbərə/ or /ˈkænbrə/". A [[WP:DIAPHONEMIC]] notation does not represent one definitive "this is how it's pronounced", but a range of many. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 06:36, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
small scattered village.
::::But why include a form that is three syllables? [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 22:33, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
None of those present on this almost treeless
:::::Why not? Does ''Macquarie'' include only the disyllabic one? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 12:04, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
site could have visualised the city which, only
:::::[[User:McKay|McKay]] said on this page [[Talk:Canberra/Archive 5#Pronunciation|in 2016]]: {{talk quote|The locals say "/ˈkænbrə/" when talking at a normal speed and "/ˈkænbərə/" if they are talking really slowly&nbsp;... my printed 1985 edition of the [[Macquarie Dictionary]] and the current edition online at the [[National Library of Australia|National Library]] both agree with me}} So I assume not. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 12:50, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
50 years later, would have, among other things,
::::::Because 1985 was 37 years ago and languages change, and several Australians said the opposite at the beginning of this thread. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 21:01, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
more than three million trees. [[Special:Contributions/110.33.67.33|110.33.67.33]] ([[User talk:110.33.67.33|talk]]) 06:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::The quote says {{tq|my printed 1985 edition of the [[Macquarie Dictionary]] '''and the current edition online''' at the [[National Library of Australia|National Library]] both agree with me}}. Both Longman Pronunciation Dictionary and Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary give {{IPA|/ˈkænbərə/}} with an optional schwa before the rhotic (indicated with italics in LPD and as a superscript schwa in CEPD). Per [[MOS:DIAPHONEMIC]], this is to be transcribed {{IPAc-en|ər}}. And {{IPAc-en|ʌ}} is out of question for the final vowel since that indicates a checked vowel (i.e. a vowel that absolutely requires a following consonant due to the fact that it stems from {{IPA|/ʊ/}} (see [[foot-strut split]]) which is restricted in the exact same way). In Australia and New Zealand, final {{IPA|/ə/}} is often closer in quality to {{IPA|/ʌ/}}, but we don't follow that practice - and neither does any Australian scholar I'm aware of. [https://books.google.com/books?id=ZBs3DwAAQBAJ Cox & Fletcher (2017:163)] explicitly recommend transcribing this vowel with {{angbr IPA|ə}} regardless of its quality and that is the transcription you'll find in every dictionary, Australian or otherwise.
:Nice quote, but it's not actually a request. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 07:41, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::::This is not the first time that Australian editors expect a special treatment for IPA transcriptions of Australian placenames ([[Melbourne]] immediately comes to mind in this case). As long as the [[:Template:IPAc-en|IPAc-en template]] is used (and there's no reason not to use it in this context), [[MOS:DIAPHONEMIC]] applies and the transcription must match [[Help:IPA/English]]. Same with the [[:Template:Respell|Respell template]]: if you use it, the transcription must match [[WP:RESPELL]].
:::::::If you dislike the use of {{angbr IPA|ərə}} in this context and would like to change it to something else (LPD-style {{angbr IPA|<i>ə</i>rə}} or CEPD-style {{angbr IPA|ᵊrə}}, or maybe {{angbr IPA|(ə)rə}}), you're welcome to raise the issue at [[Help talk:IPA/English]]. [[User:Sol505000|Sol505000]] ([[User talk:Sol505000|talk]]) 22:25, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I can assure you Australian editors will continue to request that Wikipedia articles reflect reality. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 01:51, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::Then the [[WP:BURDEN]] is on them to provide the reliable sources that demonstrate such reality. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 02:53, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::You are, of course, correct in seeking sources, but I believe there is a burden on all of us to make Wikipedia a great encyclopaedia. Implying that good faith comments from experienced and well-meaning editors are wrong does not achieve that. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 23:59, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::And we do that by making every disputed or disputable claim verifiable with reliable sources and not putting our original research in. I can't believe I'm faced with a "[[WP:But it's true!|But it's true!]]" argument in 2022 from an editor of your tenure. Being in good faith or experienced does not give you an excuse to disregard our core content policies. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 02:13, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you reread the first sentence of my previous post, you will see that your allegation is completely false. YOUR good faith here is seriously in question. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 02:17, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::::{{tq|but}} in that sentence implies you disagree with my assertion on the basis of [[WP:V]] that in order to remove the trisyllabic variant from the article, one must demonstrate its disappearance citing a reliable source. Are you saying you don't? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 04:32, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I have no idea what that post means. What I am saying is what I wrote. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 10:44, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::I'm asking if you still object to keeping the trisyllabic pronunciation in the article. [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 13:36, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::It could be mentioned, but only as a very unusual pronunciation, not one that is in any way common. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 22:02, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::And what is your source for its being uncommon? [[User:Nardog|Nardog]] ([[User talk:Nardog|talk]]) 04:17, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::Reality. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 06:44, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::Then you can look for a better source (see [[WP:V]]) and kindly stop wasting our time. I've reverted to the stable version that doesn't violate [[MOS:DIAPHONEMIC]]. [[User:Sol505000|Sol505000]] ([[User talk:Sol505000|talk]]) 09:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::What's the point of having sourced content that's wrong? Serious question. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 09:20, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::[[MOS:DIAPHONEMIC]] says that the aim of [[Help:IPA/English]] and transcriptions linking to it (those that use the IPAc-en template) is to accomodate multiple varieties of English at once, the transcription is clearly correct. ''Canberra'' is a varisyllabic word that may as well consistently have two syllables in Australia (per e.g. [https://youglish.com/pronounce/canberra/english/aus?], which isn't a valid source for WP) - not so in Britain and the US, where it usually has three (per LPD and CEPD). [[User:Sol505000|Sol505000]] ([[User talk:Sol505000|talk]]) 09:53, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
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