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From: rstevew@armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Subject: Re: Does Automation Take Jobs Away?
Organization: The Armory
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 15:22:22 GMT
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References: <30jt34$6f6@magus.cs.utah.edu> <30md20$lbe@handler.eng.sun.com> <CtE8s2.K3B@armory.com> <30upbh$53n@tribune.usask.ca>
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In article <30upbh$53n@tribune.usask.ca>, Henry Choy <choy@cs.usask.ca> wrote:
>Richard Steven Walz (rstevew@armory.com) wrote:
>: In article <30md20$lbe@handler.eng.sun.com>,
>: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis@Sun.COM> wrote:
>: >Sigh, here in the U.S. we have a bazillion civil service employees that
>: >spend their lives pondering such questions. Go to your local Gov't Printing
>: >Office and scan reports from the department of labor for the last 30 years.
>: >In particular check out the reports on "predicted job creation" which detail
>: >how the economy and complexity change the job market and where jobs are
>: >expected to be lost and created. Note the net number of jobs available
>: >continually increases, just the mix changes.
>: >
>: >If you want to be alarmist you might look not at automation of factories
>: >but automation of automobiles as a source of tremendous impact on current
>: >jobs. Today, many people with a real high school degree (high school =
>: >the first 12 years of education, after high school is college, and real
>: >in this context means a competency level in reading and mathematics) can
>: >work on cars with relatively simple tools. However microcomputers are rapidly
>: >becoming the "norm" in the control systems of cars. This change creates
>: >three distinct categories of auto mechanic:
>: >	a) Really simple ones that only know how to replace the entire
>: >	   computer control system module.
>: >	b) Factory ones who can tell you with authority that you computer
>: >	   module is as fault before they replace it.
>: >	c) Good ones who can burn new eproms for the factory module to make
>: >	   your car go 30% faster in the quarter mile.
>: >A lot of mechanics either have, or are, going out of business. Where as
>: >car 'hackers' are getting top dollar. 
>: >
>: >As an engineer,  maybe because I'm an engineer, I feel the winds of change
>: >all the time. A regular part of my day is to track changes and keep myself
>: >up to date and current. Otherwise I'll be out of a job once I'm "out of touch"
>: >with the current industry. Automation is an easy thing to point at as a
>: >"bad" thing since at least superfically it appears a robot has replaced 
>: >a human in some job. The fact of the matter is, jobs appear and disappear
>: >like electron holes in a doped semiconductor. Automation is but one, relatively
>: >benign, mechanism in this process.
>: >--
>: >--Chuck McManis	 All opinions in this message/article are
>: >FirstPerson Inc.        those of the author, who may or may not
>: >Internet: cmcmanis@firstperson.COM   be who you think it is.
>
>: ----------------------------
>: You are right that the total number of jobs are increasing, but more
>: people are having to take on these "micro-jobs" which have replaced full
>: time wage with part time pittance and no benefits!!! AND the number of jobs
>: does NOT keep up with population!!!
>
>I suspect that without automation, the number of jobs would fall even
>faster below population. Consider the use of the computer to do the
>census. Around the turn of the century a huge team people were to
>handle the data of a census, but they would be LATE! The next census
>would have already begun years before the previous one is done, and
>the new census was to require an order of magnitude more workers, who
>would be an order of magnitude farther behind. When a computer was
>used, the technological advances at each part of the job permitted the
>census to be completed within months.
>
>If we don't have machines, there'd be a lot of full time employment.
>You'd be slaving away for 18-20 hours a day along with everyone else
>to find some answers because the world would be a catastrophe. There'd
>be problems everywhere. How many pairs of hands do you have? People
>would go stir crazy. The world would be as crowded as China since
>everyone wants to reproduce to get more brains into the problem.
>
>Software engineers learn that throwing more people at a job just makes
>the job harder...
--------------------------------
I am NOT against automation, Henry, in fact I'm counting on it to
disenfranchise the rich!!! With sufficient time on their hands the
questions will be asked finally, why does that guy get all the production
rights to those robots? We know more about them than he does! We will
therefore equalize all wages by law!! If the military join the rich for the
perq's then we will have to shoot them. Revolution is what the machines
will bring, Henry, revolution!!!
-Steve

>These events are merely history repeating itself.
>
>: They build more and more prisons.
>
>...in a world of increasing population.
>
>: They build fewer and fewer schools.
>
>...in a world of increasing population.
>
>: They have a larger and larger non-working population!!! You figure it out!
-----------------------------------------------
You are playing the ass to my cart, Henry. These assertions above are all
about the fractions of the population of any size still being larger than
ever before! A greater percentage of people in prison than ever before.
Fewer people knowing how to read to their children than ever before or in
any so-called civilized nation!!
-Steve

>        Henry Choy                       "Math class is hard" - Barbie
>e-mail: choy@cs.usask.ca                  I AGREE!
------------------------------
-Steve Walz  rstevew@armory.com

