Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.object,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.software.testing
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!fsi-ssd!mikeh
From: mikeh@ssd.fsi.com (Michael Hann)
Subject: Re: Producing competent CS grads (was: Theory and Practice)
Sender: mikeh@dev1.ssd.fsi.com (Mike Hann)
Message-ID: <MIKEH.95Aug14172853@dev1.ssd.fsi.com>
In-Reply-To: douvilld@Cognos.COM's message of 14 Aug 1995 00:11:54 GMT
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:28:53 GMT
Reply-To: mikeh@ssd.fsi.com
References: <3v5kev$mve@explorer.csc.com> <3v6584$98h@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<MIKEH.95Aug10105203@dev1.ssd.fsi.com> <40m4ca$dma@wormhole.cognos.com>
Organization: FlightSafety-SSD, Tulsa, OK, USA
Followup-To: comp.edu,comp.object,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.software.testing
Lines: 53
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.edu:13882 comp.object:36822 comp.lang.c++:143873 comp.lang.smalltalk:27167 comp.software.testing:5809


Derek Douville writes (in part):

> Well, looks like I've done pretty well for myself so far.

Good for you.  No objections.  I said GENERALLY the fundamental
background a college education provides enables professionals to grow
and adopt new technology.  Maybe I should have added something to the
effect of 'more readily' or 'more rapidly.'


> I'm not knocking University students. [text removed].  There is no
> doubt that a large mass of university grads are lacking some of the
> practical skill-sets needed to function within the industry.

I'm not sure the skill-sets are lacking: I think something else is
lacking.  In any job a professional -- college educated or not -- has
to figure out what the hell has to be done.  It can't be adequately
explained by a boss or a mentor -- certainly not by a college course.
In my view the problem you are alluding to are college grads who are
somehow unable to come to grips with real problems with all their
ugly, untidy, non-generalized edges.  You've got to have 'the Right
Stuff' to succeed in the professional world; college education simply
gives you an edge, in some circumstances, over those without the
college education.  When you get out in the professional world you've
got to do . . . whatever it takes.  Some college grads are slow to
pick up on that.  Perhaps they feel they are entitled in some way and
shouldn't have to bust their ass making the transition from an
educated new hire to a skilled professional.


>> Perhaps the issue is industry likes to get the inexpensive, high
>> energy level, unjaded college hires and wishes there were no value in
>> seasoning which requires significantly higher salary levels.

> Ooh, you sound hurt, like you got rejected or something.

I haven't been rejected.  I think my point is valid.  Companies are
crying for BSCS people who are interchangeable with seasoned software
professionals.  I think they're wanting to have their cake and eat it
too.  Sorry.  There is a market for practical skills.  The practical
skills don't get taught (for the reasons above).  There is a value to
experience, and they're going to have to pay for it.  If they disagree
. . . let them get by with the entry level CS graduates (whose quality
they are already complaining about -- I think unjustly).
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are no misfortunes from which the adroit cannot take some
profit and no boon from which the imprudent cannot take some harm."
	- LaRochefoucauld

	mikeh@ssd.fsi.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
