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From: smosha@most.magec.com (Steve O'Shaughnessy)
Subject: Re: Comparison of languages for CS1 and CS2
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References: <3tufen$ohn@natasha.rmii.com> <3tuo6b$lp9@news.aero.org> <DBptGF.G3r@ss3.magec.com> <1995Jul16.155333.3715@merlin.hgc.edu> <bob-1607951301450001@comp_ctr239.sonoma.edu>
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:50:54 GMT
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In article <bob-1607951301450001@comp_ctr239.sonoma.edu>, 
bob@cs.sonoma.edu says...
>
>In article <1995Jul16.155333.3715@merlin.hgc.edu>, jcm@hgc.edu 
(James
>McKim) wrote:
>
>> In article <DBptGF.G3r@ss3.magec.com> smosha@most.magec.com 
(Steve
>O'Shaughnessy) writes:
>> 
>> [..]
>> 
>> >>
>> >No offense intended toward teachers, but those that can, do. 
 
>> >Those that can't, teach. :) 
>> 
>> Hmm... What kinds of things do you say when you _intend_ 
offense?
>
><snip>
>
>Not counting my time in school, I've spent (1) 8 years at a high
>powered research university, (2) 9 years in industry, and (3)
>eleven years teaching at an undergraduate, teaching university.
>In addition to a common set of skills needed to do each of these
>things, I found that each of them required a special set of 
skills
>uncommon to the others. I think you have to define *what* it is
>that we can or cannot do.
>
>As an example of the difference between industry and academia, I
>once heard a manager ask a programmer how his project was going.
>He replied to her that he was still working on understanding the
>problem. She replied that the company was not paying him to 
>understand the problem, but to fix it!
>
>At the research university, we always had to keep our eyes open
>for a "grantable" opportunity. But it was great fun working on
>the edge of the state of the art.
>
>And at the teaching university, we can explain it, but it's
>up to the student to make it work. Being able to explain
>something to someone who has never thought of the problem
>before takes an awful lot of thought and deep understanding
>of the basic concept.
>
>The goal in life, IMHO, is for each of us to find what it is
>that we are best suited for and work together. There are 
certainly
>plenty of things for all of us to do without putting each other
>down along the way.
>
>Bob Plantz

I apologize for my remarks, I really did not intend to affend.  I 
based them my experience of the hardware side of electrical 
engineering education.  My professors were 10 to 20 years behind 
what was happening in industry.  The time seemed to correspond to 
the length of time they had been in teaching.

As I read this thread I am finding that other universities and 
the software community in general may not be this way.  
Never-the-less if you want to catch fish you ask the people with 
the most fish on their stringer where and how.  They problably 
know better than the guy behind the counter of the air condition 
bait shop.  This is *NOT* to imply that the educators are sitting 
in ivory air conditioned towers.  I am looking the other way, at 
the guy successfully solving real world problems.  How and where 
is she/he doing it.

As I am about to undertake the work of learning Ada I again ask 
why is industry looking for C/C++ engineers?

Steve O

